The Senedd met by video-conference at 10:59 with the Llywydd (Elin Jones) in the Chair.

Statement by the Llywydd

A warm welcome to this Plenary session. Before we begin, I want to make a few points. A Plenary meeting held by video-conference in accordance with the Standing Orders of theWelsh Parliamentconstitutes Senedd proceedings for the purposes of the Government of Wales Act 2006. Some of the provisions of Standing Order 34 will apply for today's Plenary meeting and these are noted on the agenda. And I would remind Members that Standing Orders relating to order in Plenary meetings apply to this meeting.
Before beginning today's proceedings, we will observe a minute's silence in memory of George Floyd and in solidarity with the Black Lives Matter movement worldwide. I therefore call on you all to join in a moment's silence.

A minute's silence was held.

Thank you for that.

1. Business Statement and Announcement

The first item on our agenda is the business statement and announcement and I call on the Trefnydd to make that statement, Rebecca Evans.

Rebecca Evans AC: Diolch, Llywydd. There is one change to today's agenda. Later this afternoon, the Minister for International Relations and Welsh Language will make a statement on coronavirus. Draft business for the next three weeks is set out on the business statement and announcement, which can be found amongst the meeting papers available to Members electronically. It includes a statement next week by the Counsel General and Minister for European Transition on COVID-19 recovery.

I thank the Trefnydd.

2. Statement by the First Minister: Coronavirus (COVID-19)

The next item is a statement by the First Minister on coronavirus and I call on the First Minister to make the statement. Mark Drakeford.

Mark Drakeford AC: Thank you very much, Llywydd. Today's report to the Senedd will cover the most important developments in our response to coronavirus. As usual, I will summarise the latest evidence on the spread of the virus. I will provide an update on the test and trace arrangements that are crucial as we move out of lockdown. I will bring to the Senedd's attention the regulations that we will need to make in order to introduce quarantine arrangements that will apply to those entering the United Kingdom. I will also discuss the impact of the virus on children and young people in Wales. And, finally, I will refer to the horrific events in the United States last week.

Mark Drakeford AC: Llywydd, as in previous weeks, I will focus my report on matters not to be covered in the statements that follow from the Minister for Economy, Transport and North Wales and the Minister for International Relations and the Welsh Language.
Llywydd, the number of new cases of the virus in Wales continues to fall, as does the number of admissions to hospital and to critical care. There were 42 new cases reported by Public Health Wales yesterday. There are now 40 patients in critical care beds in Wales suffering from coronavirus, down from a peak of 164 in April. The number of new admissions for coronavirus has fallen from over 1,000 a week, at the peak, to 710 last week. These trends are encouraging, and I once again thank people in Wales for the commitment and solidarity that they have shown over the past weeks and months.
Despite that, Llywydd, yesterday the Office for National Statistics reported that, in all settings, up to 29 May, there have been a total of 2,240 deaths involving coronavirus in Wales. The number of deaths reported yesterday by Public Health Wales was nine, continuing the downward trend. But each of those is an individual with a life that could have been led. Each one will have been greatly missed. And it remains imperative that we all continue to follow the rules to protect ourselves and others.
Llywydd, I reported last week on the decisions taken as part of the latest review of the regulations, to ease some of the restrictions currently in place. We will make further easements, as soon as it is safe to do so, but only when it is safe to do so.
We have taken these cautious steps supported by our test, trace and protect system, which came into effect last week. As I’ve said, the number of positive cases of coronavirus in Wales continues to fall. Last week the highest number on any one day was 82, the lowest, 35. These cases generated 651 people for follow-up by the contact tracing teams, and of those 651, 619 have already been successfully contacted and advised.

Mark Drakeford AC: Our system in Wales is a partnership between Public Health Wales, local health boards and local authorities. Over 600 staff, experienced in working with the public, have been recruited and trained by local authorities and other public services. Not all will be undertaking contact tracing work as yet due to the low number of new positive cases, but the capacity is there to step up if needed, and careful arrangements have been made in our system to protect personal data and to guard against fraud. And all of that is important because this is a trust-based system, enabled by technology and staffed by local people. It will provide the essential infrastructure to help us prevent transmission of the virus and gradually reduce the restrictions on day-to-day life in Wales.
Llywydd, we have to be prepared for a potential upturn in transmission, because as the lockdown eases, so the number of personal contacts increases. In that context, we have reviewed the evidence on the role of face coverings, and the Minister for Health and Social Services reported on new advice yesterday, endorsing the use of non-medical face coverings on public transport.
The Minister also provided a written statement yesterday that set out that we are on track to complete the first phase of testing all residents and staff in care homes in Wales by the end of this week, and we will now test all care home workers each week for a further four-week period.
Llywydd, the UK Government’s plans for quarantine requirements at the border came into effect this week. Border security is a reserved matter, but because the quarantine arrangements are implemented through public health legislation, it was necessary for the Welsh Ministers to make parallel regulations for Wales. Where people notify an intention to quarantine at an address in Wales, they will be contacted by Public Health Wales.
Llywydd, in previous statements I have considered the impact of the virus on the work of the Welsh Government, on its budget and other areas. The legislative programme is no exception, with a sharp reduction in the capacity of the Government to bring forward our proposals, and challenges indeed for the legislature in discharging the responsibility to scrutinise those plans in current circumstances.
The Minister for Education's statement yesterday informed Ministers that, very reluctantly, the Government has concluded that it will not be practicable to proceed as planned with the tertiary education reform Bill. It will now be published as a draft Bill for consultation. I will make a statement next month on the Government’s legislative plans for the remainder of this Senedd term.
Llywydd, yesterday we received important evidence on how coronavirus is impacting the lives of children in Wales. This has been an extraordinary period for us all, but for children the coronavirus crisis will make up a significant proportion of their whole lives. Attending to their needs and experience is an important strand in our response to the emergency.
Over 23,700 children and young people aged between three and 18 shared their views through the 'Coronavirus and Me' survey. This survey is a partnership between the Welsh Government, the Children’s Commissioner for Wales, Children in Wales and the Youth Parliament. The survey underlined how much young people have been missing their family and friends during this period, and for young people in particular, it has underlined their anxieties about their education and worries about falling behind.
As our chief medical officer has regularly made clear, there is more than one form of harm from coronavirus. Children’s needs must be a real concern as we try to balance the benefits of protection from the virus against the harms caused by loss of education and social contact, and there's no doubt that those harms will impact most on those who are already disadvantaged. From the start, we set out to mitigate those harms by keeping schools open for children receiving free school meals, and children of key workers. But for many children, there has been no contact with school, and their experience of remote learning may have been mixed.
That is why, in considering the options for the remainder of this term, the Minister for Education has given priority to ensuring that all pupils will meet their teacher in small groups to support them with their learning and planning for the next stage. The Minister's statement last week confirmed that this is a phased return to school. It will start on 29 June and continue until the end of July, ensuring a full month of schooling in its new format for all pupils before the summer break.
Finally, Llywydd, the leader of Plaid Cymru raised the question of Black Lives Matter protests with me and I was grateful to him for doing so. The anger felt at the death of George Floyd has quite rightly cast a spotlight on the wider experience of black people in our society. We have as great a need as any here in Wales to confront our own history, to recognise the part played in it by black communities, and to address the systematic discrimination and discrimination faced still by black people today. Nobody's record on this is perfect: no political party; no organisation, public or private; and no Government. All I want to say to black citizens here in Wales today is that imperfect as the record has been, the Welsh Government is here to stand by you, to work with you, to learn from you as we recommit to making a real difference in the future. Llywydd, diolch yn fawr.

Leader of Plaid Cymru, Adam Price.

Adam Price AC: First Minister, I warmly welcome the comments you made at the end of your statement and I would like to return to the issue of the implications for us in Wales of the appalling events in the United States. Now, who we commemorate from our past reflects our values as a society today. Would it be appropriate, therefore, in your view, First Minister, to conduct a Wales-wide review, as is happening now across London, in order to ensure that we are not seen to be in any way celebrating slavery, colonialism or racism in our national monuments or our local monuments?

Mark Drakeford AC: I thank Adam Price once again for raising this important point. I agree entirely with this comments. It's important that we remember our past and the part that Wales played in the events of the past that we are thinking about today, but we don't want to celebrate those things. We want to educate and remember, but not celebrate, and that's why we're working with local authorities and others in Wales in order to consider whether there are things that are still being displayed at the moment that would be better placed in a museum, so that they are a part of our history and so that we don't forget that history, but neither should we be celebrating it, and we are still working with others across Wales to consider that issue.

Adam Price AC: The way we teach our history has the capacity to either reproduce the past or change the future. So, First Minister, in addition to the general commitment you gave in your statement, which is very welcome, I was wondering if you would be prepared to give two further specific commitments today.
The Welsh Government currently funds a woollen, maritime, slate and coal museum, even one for the Roman legion, and there is also a proposal separately for a military medicine museum in what was Tiger Bay. There is an obvious gap. So, would you commit, First Minister, to exploring the establishment of a national museum telling the history of the BAME communities in Wales and will you also commit to embedding anti-racism and the teaching of black and people of colour history, including, as you yourself have referenced, Wales's own role in colonialism and slavery, as core elements within the educational curriculum in every school in Wales?

Mark Drakeford AC: I thank Adam Price again. He's right to point to the wide range of museums that we have in Wales, including a new football museum as a result of an agreement between his party and the Government earlier in this Senedd term. I'm very happy to look at a museum of the sort he describes. I'd really want it to be a living museum. I've had the privilege on a number of occasions in recent times of helping award recognition to young people from the black community as part of Black History Month, and the message I try and convey to them in that event is that they are creating their history today. The history doesn't belong to the past; history is something we are all engaged in producing ourselves and that they have agency themselves as hugely talented and valued young black people here in Wales. So, I'm very happy to commit to looking at it, but I do very much want it to be a part of celebrating contemporary Wales, the contribution that black communities make, the way that they shape Wales into the future, as well as looking at their experience in shaping Wales in the past.
And as far as teaching in schools is concerned, Adam Price will be very aware of how recent events have shone a spotlight on this whole subject. I know that my colleague Kirsty Williams will be wanting to work again with those who have been advising us on the new curriculum, on the way that it is to be developed and delivered to make sure that we are capturing the lessons of the past few weeks. I think this is a matter for every school in Wales. Whatever the local make-up of a population might be, it is just as important for children, where black communities have been less present, to understand that history as it is for young people who are part of that community themselves.

The leader of the opposition, Paul Davies.

Paul Davies AC: Diolch, Llywydd. First Minister, earlier this week you indicated that you were looking at easing some of the lockdown restrictions in Wales in your next review. The people of Wales will be looking for hope in that statement—hope that they can reunite their families, hope in relation to their businesses and hope that, as the number of new cases is falling, some of the freedoms that have been taken away in recent weeks will now be restored. I appreciate that you're still working with officials, but you have previously indicated in the past that hairdressers and others should start preparing for reopening. However, there are other sectors that are yet to hear anything from the Welsh Government, such as the property industry, the retail motor industry—and the list goes on.
Therefore, in preparation for your next announcement, can you confirm on what fundamental basis the Welsh Government may ease restrictions for some sectors, and what steps are you taking to ensure that that criteria is fairly tested against all sectors, so that Wales's economy can start to reopen a bit more in the coming weeks?

Mark Drakeford AC: Well, Llywydd, I share that hope that people in Wales have that we will be in a position at the end of next week to further lift some of the restrictions we've all had to abide by over what is now nearly three months. How will we know whether it is possible to do so? Well, it will depend upon the level of circulation of the virus here in Wales, and there are a range of indications that we will be able to use to tell us whether or not we have headroom to be able to offer further amelioration of those restrictions. The R number will be one indication, but some of the things that I covered in my statement, Llywydd, will also be relevant.
So, to give you a different sort of yardstick, in answer to the leader the of the opposition's question, when we went into lockdownat the end of March, there were 400 new confirmed cases of coronavirus in Wales on any one day and that number was rising. Seven weeks ago, when we first began to lift some restrictions, that number had fallen to around a 100 a day, and was falling, and that helped to create the headroom to begin the process. As we go into this week, the figure is around 50 new confirmed cases every day, and that number continues to fall. So, your chances of meeting somebody, as you leave your own home, who is suffering from coronavirus is about an eighth of what it was when we went into lockdown. And that's just a way of trying to explain to people why it is possible to offer people additional freedoms.
But, the second thing that we will continue to have to emphasise to people is that, as they exercise those freedoms, they have to exercise them really carefully, because even if there are only 50 new confirmed cases a day, you have no way of knowing, as you leave your home, whether you are going to be in contact one of those 50 people. So, social distancing, hand hygiene, use of face coverings, and non-medical face coverings on public transport, all those are things that we must still use, even as we lift the lockdown, to go on making sure that we bear down of the virus, we create more headroom, so, at the end of another three week period, there are further things that we would be able to do to help resume life as we were more used to it before the virus began.

Paul Davies AC: Well, I hope, First Minister, that as the Welsh Government considers the next major changes to its COVID-19 policies, it will work constructively will opposition parties. And it might be helpful in the future if you could consult opposition politicians before making some of these decisions so that the people of Wales can be sure that we, as politicians, are working together where we can in the public interest.
Now, First Minister, last weekend you made it clear that Wales will remain largely shut over the summer, with visitors likely to be restricted to staying in cottages and self-catering flats. As I'm sure you can imagine, your comments were met with some anger and frustration by some tourism operators across the country, who, understandably, fear that this could lead to the collapse of the Welsh tourism sector. Now, I appreciate that opening up the sector has to be done in a safe and sustainable manner, but, as our tourism businesses watch their counterparts across the UK consider ways in which they can partially reopen tourist facilities, many operators feel as though they're being left behind with no hope for their businesses in the future. So, will you and your Government take the opportunity today to spell out exactly what the Welsh Government's current plans are for the tourism industry here in Wales? And can you also tell us what discussions you've had with representatives of the tourism industry to ascertain how your Government can better support them throughout this pandemic? And will you commit to providing further support to tourism operators across Wales until they can reopen, to ensure their viability for the future?

Mark Drakeford AC: Well, Llywydd, let me say that the future of the tourism industry is very much in my thoughts and in the work that we do within the Welsh Government. I absolutely appreciate what an enormous impact the virus has had on that sector here in Wales. I wanted to give an indication that there is some hope for that sector, too, and that there are some ways in which we might yet be able to resume some tourism activity during the current season, but it will have to be, as Paul Davies has rightly said, with safety at the forefront of our thinking. We have very regular contact with tourism organisations and interests in Wales. I had a meeting only yesterday with the Minister responsible, with senior officials here, reporting on those conversations and thinking ahead to what we might be able to offer in terms of lifting the lockdown. If it is possible, then, beginning with self-contained accommodation, where people are not sharing kitchens and toilets and showers and so on, seems to be a sensible and safe way of thinking about how we can resume activity in the tourism industry.
The other key factor—and Mr Davies will be very well aware of this, I know, from his local representation—is that it has to be done with community consent. He will know the level of anxiety there has been in parts of south-west and north-west Wales during the pandemic, of people coming into those areas from places where the virus has been in more virulent circulation, and of the risk of the virus coming into places where it's been in low circulation and the impact that that could have on local services and local lives. So, there's a job of work for the industry to do, as well, in having those conversations with local populations—many of those people work in the tourism sector themselves—so that as we move, if we are able to, to allow tourism to resume in Wales, people who travel to those communities can be sure that they would be welcome, and that the industry will once again be demonstrating to people everything that Wales has to offer.

Mark Reckless AC: First Minister, we no longer have First Minister's questions and, instead, I respond once again remotely to your statement. The Westminster Parliament has returned, but elected Members aren't allowed to attend the Senedd, yet on Saturday a mass of protesters were allowed to demonstrate at the Senedd, in sight of where your health Minister had his takeaway family picnic. I asked you then if you'd read Animal Farm, as it seemed some were more equal than others. This week, as others were fined for travelling a bit more than 5 miles to see family, at least one Labour Member joined the protest in Bute park. Why should others obey the lockdown if Labour Members who impose it break it? Mandy Jones from my group rightly observed, if the second protest goes ahead,
'This is a slap in the face to those who have sacrificed so much in order to defeat the virus.'
When asked your view on the protests, did you take the opportunity to condemn their illegality? Did you warn protestors they could be fined or say you would support the police in issuing such fines? No. You chose instead to condemn the elected Member who sought to uphold the law. Of course, the mass protest—organised, incidentally, Llywydd, by a group that wants to dismantle capitalism and defund the police—is a slap in the face to many who have sacrificed so much in order to defeat the virus.
First Minister, will you apologise to Mandy Jones for your disgraceful slur in attempting to link that turn of phrase to a police officer seemingly killing a man by kneeling on his neck for eight and a half minutes? Why won't you enforce your rules without fear or favour? Is it because you support the protests, or is it because you are afraid that you will be 'cancelled' by the protestors, as Jenny Rathbone and Ali Ahmed were on Saturday when they respectively spoke up for other minority groups and said, 'All lives matter'? First Minister as you won't enforce your laws fairly, isn't it time we repealed them?

Mark Drakeford AC: Llywydd, how this Parliament chooses to sit is not a matter for me. If this Parliament decides that it wants to resume meeting partly or wholly in person, then I will appear in front of the Senedd to answer questions. It's entirely a matter for you, not a matter for me.
As to the point the Member made about lawmakers, let me be clear: my view has always been that you cannot make the law and break the law, and that goes for us all, every single Member, in my view. We have the enormous privilege of making decisions that we then ask other people to abide by. We cannot make those decisions, ask them to abide by them and not abide by them ourselves, and that goes for us all.
Llywydd, I very much support the police in the way that they have responded to demonstrations. It's not for me to instruct them who have to make those decisions on the front line as to how they should respond to the circumstances unfolding in front of them. I think police in Wales have responded in a constructive way to the difficult position they have faced, and I want to support them in the actions they have taken.
As for demonstrators, I simply say again that I understand and share the anger that they feel and their need to make their views known, but there are other and better ways to do that in the current circumstances. People should not gather when they are in close proximity with one another and in violation of the rules that we have set down. There are many other ways in which views can be known and need to be known and ought to be known, and I urge people in Wales who feel so strongly, as I do myself, to make those views known in ways that do not put themselves and others at risk.

For the avoidance of any doubt, this Parliament is sitting. David Rees.

David Rees AC: Diolch, Llywydd. First Minister, we've literally received a notification from Albert Heaney within minutes of the guidance that may be changing for care homes and visits to care homes. I've received constituents' concerns regarding the ability to visit relatives in care homes who may be suffering with dementia. There are some excellent examples, Sŵn-y-Môr in Aberavon actually uses video contacting, video on FaceTime. They'll go around every resident to ensure that every member of their family has a chance to see them. That's not possible in all care homes.
Now, the letter that's just come out gives an indication that they're seeking comments from the public, and guidance will be published in coming weeks, but your review is scheduled for next week. Can you give us an indication as to whether there will be opportunities for care homes that are COVID-free to actually allow visits from families, particularly to members who have dementia, who see a friendly family face as crucial to their mental well-being? Is that part of your thinking on that guidance?

Mark Drakeford AC: Llywydd,I thank David Rees for that. Just to say again, I hugely appreciate the human cost that there is for families and for residents in not being able to see one another at times in their lives where that human contact means so much to them.
But Mr Rees referred to care homes in Wales where there is no COVID in circulation, and three quarters of all the care homes in Wales have not reported a single confirmed case. But there are only two ways, really, in which coronavirus could get into a home where there is no coronavirus at the moment. One is it is brought in by a member of staff, and the second is that it is brought in by a visitor. So, the rules that we have had in place are absolutely there to protect care home residents from the devastating effect that coronavirus can have in a home that has elderly people with underlying health conditions living in close proximity to one another. Week after week, Llywydd, in these sessions, we have had to stare at those very, very sobering figures of the number of people who have died in care homes in Wales.
So, Mr Heaney's letter, which went out on 5 June, does advise care homes about how they can do more to allow visits from family and friends to care home residents in circumstances that minimise that risk. Care homes are able to do that under the current regulations; it doesn't require a change in regulations to be able to do the additional things that Albert Heaney is advising.
As David Rees said, there are many, many care homes in Wales that are already doing hugely imaginative things to try and bridge the gap between what was possible before and what has been possible during the pandemic. We have a group working on that further guidance. It meets again tomorrow. We want to be able to do more to allow families to have contact with people in care homes, but we can only judge it against the real risk, the risk we have seen from the number of deaths that have taken place, of what the virus does if it does get into a care home where, up until now, all those efforts have succeeded in keeping it at bay.

Llyr Gruffydd AC: First Minister, the calls to protect people's right to breathe clean air have clearly intensified during recent months, and I'm sure you'll share my concern that the Hafod landfill site near Wrexham caught fire a fortnight ago. Thick black plumes of smoke passed over the large neighbouring communities, communities, by the way, of course, who'd fought a vigorous campaign some years ago to prevent waste being dumped there. Now, as with the recent fire at nearby Kronospan, mobile air-quality monitoring equipment had to be moved in from Swansea, and that took days to arrive. Arguably, the worst of the damage had already been done, but within two hours of its arrival, the equipment actually detected particulates above the acceptable levels, and residents were told to stay indoors with windows shut for three days. We know, of course, that burning plastics and other wastes creates dioxins and furans, chemicals that can accumulate in the food chain, and, of course, they can cause cancer as well.
Now, hundreds of people have signed the petition saying that enough is enough, and they want to see the Hafod tip close. So, will you, as First Minister, ensure that an independent inquiry is held into the cause of the fire, and that the Hafod landfill site is closed, or at least is closed until the inquiry is concluded? And will the Government also now ensure that we have mobile air quality monitoring equipment located here in north Wales so that we don't have to wait days on end for it to arrive for any future incidents, by which time, of course, most of the damage has already been done?

Mark Drakeford AC: Well, Llywydd, there are authorities that have responsibilities in this area—the local authority, the fire authority; they will be providing reports on the events to which Llyr Gruffydd has referred, and the Welsh Government will consider those reports and then decide what further action may be needed. I take the point he made in his final sentence, about the availability of mobile air quality equipment, and I will look to see whether there is anything that can be done to improve that position.

Mark Isherwood AC: How do you respond to yesterday's statement by the British Association of Private Dentistry in Wales, which has grown from nought to 400 members in under a week, that many patients are suffering needlessly, and that urgent action to deliver routine dentistry under interim standard operating procedures and personal protective equipment is required to allow the Welsh population the same care as in England, but more importantly, around the world, and that many dental practices will not otherwise survive?
And how do you respond to the following, which Wrexham Glyndŵr University has asked me to raise here? With substantial numbers of staff and students from across the nearby border with England, they're concerned about the current divergence at this early stage of emerging from lockdown, and the confusion this may cause if it persists into later stages. How will they be able to communicate clearly to staff and students who may be anxious about being in breach?

Mark Drakeford AC: Llywydd, I respond to the first group by referring them to the advice of the Chief Dental Officer for Wales, who is the person best equipped—a good deal better equipped than the Member will be—to provide people with expert advice in the dental field, and the continuing discussions that she will have with the profession in Wales. That's how decisions should be made—by proper professional discussion and professional leadership, and I refer them to the leader of their profession here in Wales.
As to the points made by staff at Glyndŵr university, I would be very pleased to recruit and co-opt them into the efforts that we make as a Welsh Government to make clear what the rules are here in Wales, and to put right any confusion caused by his colleagues across our border.

Dawn Bowden AC: First Minister, can I welcome the fact that, at the last review of the COVID regulations, the Welsh Government were able to ensure that apprentices can return to college in order to complete their practical studies, and therefore complete their qualifications? That's great news for those young people, and we hope, of course, that it will benefit the economy, too. However, I do fear the scale of problems that could face young people in the months ahead. In my own constituency, the youth unemployment claimant count is currently running at about 11 per cent. So, do you agree that, in seeking to address this in the longer term, we should scale up on existing successes like the Aspire programme at Merthyr college, and perhaps look to see if this apprenticeship model could be applied in more sectors and beyond STEM students, benefitting young people and local employers in a wider variety of settings?

Mark Drakeford AC: Llywydd, I thank Dawn Bowden for that, and we were very glad to be able to support the FE sector in their wish to enable young people with practical examinations to complete those so that they weren't disadvantaged compared to young people receiving more conventional academic qualifications who'd already been catered for here in Wales.
I thank Dawn Bowden for drawing attention to the success of the Aspire scheme. As she will know, it's an example of a shared apprenticeship scheme where young people get an opportunity to gain experience in a variety of different settings, and where small employers, in particular, who may not have the capacity to take on a whole apprentice full time, are still able to have the benefit of an apprentice working as part of their workforce. And, Llywydd, Dawn's suggestion was to build on success and to spread it further. She will know that the Aspire scheme began in Blaenau Gwent where we put 80 young people working as part of the Aspire scheme there, and was then moved to take place in Merthyr as well. And I think that's a very good practical example of exactly the point Dawn Bowden was making; it was a success, we're doing more of it, and we've extended the funding for it in Merthyr and Blaenau Gwent for another 12 months.
As we move into the difficult days ahead where unemployment is going to be increasing, and the impact we know that that has on young people's lives, then building on the things that we've done already and know can succeed will be a very, very important part of our armoury.

Rhun ap Iorwerth AC: A week ago, I was calling on the Welsh Government to make a recommendation that people should wear a face mask in certain circumstances, and may I say that I am pleased that the Government has now taken action on that. But I wanted to pursue issues of dentistry in COVID-19. I've had a number of dentists contacting me following an announcement on how dental services are to be restored in Wales. One was very supportive of the fact that that was going to be very gradual, and emphasised the very real risk of infection in a dental situation, and said that England, in their recent announcement on dental services, had caught up with Wales in terms of the re-introduction of certain services already provided here.
But I have to say that most of those dentists were concerned—concerned that Wales was moving far more slowly in re-introducing services than most other nations, certainly looking throughout Europe; concern that failure to provide fundamental services like fillings meant that crucial preventative services couldn't happen, and the detrimental impact that that could have on the dental health of the population. Others emphasised that dental services are well used to dealing with cross-infection—

A question please, Rhun ap Iorwerth.

Rhun ap Iorwerth AC: I will come to my question immediately.
[Continues.]—and they also said that there's been an opportunity taken to change dental contracts, and I don't think that this is the right time to do this. So, I ask the First Minister, does he hear those concerns and is he willing to work with the profession to find an alternative way forward?

Mark Drakeford AC: If I could say at the outset, Llywydd, of course we as a Government are eager to see more services being provided in primary care, and that is true of dentistry, of course it is. But we must do it in a way in which we can care for those working in dentistry, and for their patients too. I know that Rhun ap Iorwerth will be aware, having heard from people in the sector, that there are challenges in that sector.

Mark Drakeford AC: It's quite impossible to practice dentistry at a 2m distance, and the use of aerosols, which is an intrinsic part of dental practice, poses particular risks when it comes to this virus. So, we are keen, of course, to see dentistry resume, as with other primary care services, but it's got to be done in a way that protects the health of workers and of patients. That's what the advice of the chief dental officer was designed to deliver in a phased resumption of dental practice. She remains in close conversation with the profession. If it is safe to do more more quickly, that is exactly what we would want to see. But the word 'safe' has to mean something, and it has to mean something that we can all rely on, otherwise patients won't come. That's why it's in the interest of the profession to make sure that they can confidently communicate to patients that the services they will be offering have been approved by the leaders of their profession as being ones that are now safe to resume.

Janet Finch-Saunders AC: The chair of Care Forum Wales has publicly criticised Public Health Wales for not engaging with care professionals before implementing the new 28-day COVID-free policy restrictions. This could potentially close half of the care homes in Wales due to the financial implications of this and the voids. Could you explain, First Minister, why those in our care sector were not consulted prior to the issuing of this letter? Also, not all COVID-19 test results are being received in the vital 48-hour window; some are taking up to three days. What effect will this have on the new policy of weekly care home testing? As of 1 June, only 22 of 68 homes had been mass tested locally. So, how can we be confident that all homes now will reach that milestone of mass testing, and more so, how are you going to carry out the retesting weekly in our care homes?
And, finally, will you urgently review the impact of 1,400 discharges to care homes in March and April, and the effect that that has on our infection rates, given that some of those were not tested before they left hospital? Diolch yn fawr.

Mark Drakeford AC: Well, Llywydd, the answer to the Member's first question is to be found in her final question. The reason that we are proposing that someone who has tested positive should not be discharged to a care home for 28 days is precisely because of the concerns raised by the sector of people earlier in the progress of the pandemic being released from hospital to a care home and having a risk of bringing coronavirus with them. Our latest position is designed to make sure that that does not happen. Now, you can't have it both ways here. Either you don't want people with coronavirus to be in care homes or you don't. If you don't, then the 28-day rule is designed to deliver on that objective. And we remain in close conversation with the sector all the time.
Llywydd, we are confident that we will have completed our testing of care home residents and of care home staff by 12 June. It has been a most enormous effort. There have been instances in Wales where we've had to work very hard to persuade care homes of the advantage of this policy. And I understand that there will be care homes that are anxious about outsiders coming into the home because of the risk of the virus coming with them. But we've had quite a number of care homes where a lot of conversation has had to be had in order to allow the testing to take place, and that has delayed the testing in quite a number of instances. I see the Member shaking her head at me. I'm simply telling her the facts. I don't know what there is to disagree with them; that is simply a matter that is reported to us by health boards and testers, that not all care homes are equally receptive, and not all care home residents are willing to be tested. And that is a right that they have. It is not a compulsory system. It is an offer. And not all care home residents have wanted to take that offer up, and we have to respect that too.
We are confident that we can now test every care home worker weekly for four weeks, and we will see what we learn from that, and then we will make a decision about a proportionate approach to testing in this sector once that four-week period is over.

Huw Irranca-Davies AC: Good morning, First Minister. Last night, I was one of many people who took part in a UK-wide discussion on the Co-operative Party's new report 'Owning the Future', about how we can rebuild co-operatively after coronavirus. And the report found that only one in 10 people feel that the UK-wide economy before coronavirus prioritised sharing wealth fairly, and that seven out of 10 people think that the coronavirus recovery should give communities more of a say in how businesses and the economy are run. And, again, seven out of 10 want to keep that renewed sense of community that we found during the crisis.
Now, in Wales, we're fortunate, we've long had a Government that understands and supports co-operative principles, and has acted upon these, year after year after year. But all of us in the Welsh Labour and Co-operative group of Members of the Senedd would ask you, First Minister: will you continue to put those co-operative principles into action, as we rebuild from coronavirus, to grow our collective stake in owning our own future in Wales, as well as right across the UK?

Mark Drakeford AC: Llywydd, can I thank Huw Irranca-Davies for that question, drawing attention to the very important 'Owning the Future' report, which I've enjoyed reading? And it has that outstanding merit of the co-operative movement, which is that it has a whole series of practical proposals at the end—it is not just a report that analyses the problem; it's a report that then gives you seven, as it happens in this case, intensely practical ways in which you can help to shape the future, as the report suggests. And I'm not in the least surprised at that finding in the report, because people in Wales have done so much co-operatively together over the past three months that it's no wonder that they want a greater collective and co-operative approach to shaping that future. And the things we've done as a Government over the years have always seemed to me to be with the grain of the way that people in Wales think about these matters. So, I'm absolutely happy to recommit to continuing to do that over the rest of this Assembly term, as we begin to move out of, and hopefully beyond, the pandemic. I'm looking forward very much to being part myself of the Wales Co-op Party annual conference, held virtually over the coming weekend, and an opportunity to discuss there practical ways in which we can work together to shape a future in which we all have a stake and the contributions of all Welsh citizens are properly valued and celebrated.

Neil Hamilton. Neil Hamilton?

Neil Hamilton AC: I—

Carry on. I'll come back to you. Lynne Neagle.

Lynne Neagle AC: Thank you, Llywydd. First Minister, I entirely share your concerns, expressed in your statement, about the impact of COVID on children and young people. But as I only have a minute today, I wanted to use my time to ask about another group who are all too often voiceless. Figures released last week by the Office for National Statistics have shown a staggering 83 per cent increase in deaths from dementia, not COVID, in April. And the Alzheimer's Society has warned that the pandemic is taking a devastating toll on those living with dementia. Many of us in this Assembly are proud to be dementia friends, and we know from that how vital human contact is to those living with dementia, who have to live in the moment much of the time.
Now, you've talked many times about the need to balance mental health with physical health considerations—you've said it again now in response to David Rees. But can I ask how you've specifically taken into account the devastating impact of isolation and separation from loved ones on those living with dementia in the decisions you've taken? And I'd also like to ask you for your firm commitment today that you will urgently look at the numbers of deaths of those living with dementia, and the associated Alzheimer's research, and for your commitment that you will issue a further written statement, detailing what further actions the Welsh Government will take to mitigate the impact of COVID on those living with dementia. Thank you.

Mark Drakeford AC: Llywydd, can I thank Lynne Neagle for that important question, in a very complex and challenging area? The visits that we've been able to talk about in care homes, and set out in Mr Heaney's letter, require social distancing to be maintained. And as Lynne Neagle will know, that can be particularly difficult to explain to people, who, as she said, live in the moment and where physical contact is often very much part of the way in which they gain comfort from people who come to see them. And yet we know that that physical contact could pose such a significant risk to them and then to other people living in that same setting.
So, these are very complex matters. The ONS figures are very concerning and we will certainly be trying to make sense of them here in Wales. In doing so, we will rely, I'm sure, on the advice of our dementia oversight of implementation and impact group, which comprises of people looking after people with dementia—the lived experience of that—the Alzheimer's Society, and our own health and social care organisations. It's due to meet in the next couple of weeks. It will be looking at that report, at what the Alzheimer's Society itself has said, as well as the ONS, and will be giving us further advice. And as we are able to use that advice to advise others, then I will certainly make sure that that is properly communicated to Assembly Members.

Nick Ramsay AC: Two issues, if I may, First Minister. Firstly, I wonder if the Welsh Government could look again at this 5-mile travel rule and provide guidance on this. I know you've said previously that it is guidance and discretionary for people on how far they do travel, but I've got many constituents who are still unclear and very concerned that they can't travel to see family and friends. So, could we have clarity on that?
Secondly, I asked the finance Minister recently if there'd been any discussions about the future raising of taxes in Wales to deal with COVID recovery. I know she said that that was not an attractive thing to do, but I wondered if there had been any discussions. And as we come out of lockdown, could the Welsh Government perhaps look overseas at examples of some other countries in terms of getting the economy moving and using the tax system to do that? In New Zealand, for instance, they've introduced a tax loss carry-back regime to help businesses offset current tax losses against previous years. Perhaps that's something that you and the UK Government could discuss.They're also introducing discretionary deductions for non-domestic buildings to try and support businesses and get the economy moving. So, I think the Welsh Government does have a number of tools in the toolbox, as you and your predecessor have said before. So, could you look at ways to use the tax system to really kick-start the economy and try to get Wales moving again?

Mark Drakeford AC: Llywydd, I thank Nick Ramsay for both of those questions. Let me just say, once again, it is not helpful to refer to the 5-mile limit as a rule—it is not a rule. If it was a rule, it would be in regulations—it's not in regulations. It is guidance to give people a sense of what the regulation that requires people to stay local might mean in their circumstances. And the best advice is just to say to people that they're to use the 5-mile limit as a rule of thumb. They're to interpret it sensibly and soberly in their own circumstances, but there are many, many different geographies in Wales, and so long as they can demonstrate that they are acting in a way that can be defended, then they will have brought themselves within the 'stay local' rule.
There are no plans for tax erasing by the WelshGovernment during the current financial year. I'm interested to hear the examples that Nick Ramsay referred to. We've tended to gather a lot of information from countries elsewhere about how they are lifting lockdown regulations and the impact that that's having in the health area. It's a useful point that the Member makes about learning from places elsewhere as they use different levers to assist the economy, as the economy recovers from the impacts of coronavirus as well.
I think most of the examples that Nick Ramsay referred to would be for the UK Government to take forward. And currently, of course, in the non-domestic-rates context, a great deal of help has already been provided in the current financial year so that businesses don't face those obligations at a time when their ability to raise revenue is at a low ebb. But I think the general point, and it's an important point, is: just as we learn from the experience of other countries in the health aspects of the coronavirus crisis, it's important we learn from them in the economy recovery as well, and we will certainly aim to do that as a Government in Wales.

Neil Hamilton. Wait one second for your microphone to come on. Can I have Neil Hamilton's microphone switched on? Okay, we're still struggling on that one. I will call you, Neil Hamilton, if we manage to get the microphone switched on. I'll go to Alun Davies.

Alun Davies AC: Thank you very much, and I'm grateful, Presiding Officer, to the First Minister for the clarity of his statement this morning. I think the clarity with which he's spoken is something of a comparison with the continuing chaos that we're seeing across the border in England, where we see promises made, promises broken. We're seeing poor leadership and collapsing public support in the policies being pursued by the UK Government, and the horrific mortality rates that we're seeing across the border are, I think, the main reason for that, as well as the inability of the UK Government to speak clearly to the needs of their population.
I'm interested, First Minister, in the way that you are approaching future policy and the approach that you are taking over these coming months. You've spoken already about the decisions that you will be taking in the next week or so, at the next review, but, in the same way as Nick Ramsay spoke about international examples, I would like to understand the sorts of international examples you are looking at and considering in terms of how you approach a continuing lockdown.
Now, we've heard some siren voices and sometimes strident voices from Conservatives and elsewhere saying that you should just follow the disaster in England, but nobody wants that. People in Blaenau Gwent don't want that. What they want is for you to consider their needs, to put people before profit, and they want you to consider their families and their communities. So, I'd be grateful, First Minister, if you could outline to us the approach you're taking, how you're using international examples to inform that approach, and what you expect to be able to do, as we move forward through these summer months.

Mark Drakeford AC: Llywydd, I thank Alun Davies. I'll try very briefly to just offer a few strands in the way we are trying to do what he says. Our approach in Wales has been to try to work out how a policy could be implemented and then to announce the policy, not to announce the policy first and then worry about how you can make it happen afterwards. And we have seen, across our border, where that leads you to in their education travails of this week.
We are determined to try to make sure that we take into account the messages we learn from people in Wales as we make our decisions. That's why, at the end of the last three-week review, we used the headroom we had to deal with the human heartbreak of not being able to meet people from another household who are important to you. That came directly from the messages that we were hearing from Senedd Members, but also directly from people themselves, and making sure that people's views and their preferences are plugged in is part of the way we will make those decisions.
I think—[Inaudible.]—the decisions that we've got to make immediately and how we can plan over the period from now to the autumn, and then there is the work that Jeremy Miles is leading about longer term recovery. In both of those things, evidence from other places in the world is really important to us. We're learning a lot about the way lockdown is being lifted elsewhere and the risks that are then inevitably run of the R number rising and the virus being in circulation again. And I know that Alun Davies will have read of those examples in other parts of the world, just as we learn from places that have taken steps that don't result in that outcome. And then, in the way that Nick Ramsay said, we also need to learn the lessons of elsewhere about economic recovery, about ways in which we can create a fair economy of the future, in which we reward those people who do the work that we really depend upon, rather than those people who, in the way that we've seen over the last decade, have been able to use their advantages to create still more advantages, while leaving the rest of us behind.

Jayne Bryant AC: Members of the cross-party group on preventing child sexual abuse are concerned about children subject to sexual abuse during lockdown—two particular concerns about where a child is locked down and with the perpetrator, as well as an increase in online abuse as children spend more time online and abusers exploit this opportunity. All of this is compounded by the fact that children on child protection plans for child sexual abuse are under-represented, so were more likely to be invisible before the pandemic.
Can the Welsh Government ensure that the public and professionals know that the services there to support children and young people are still open for business? Helplines remain open, specialist services can, where safe and appropriate, support children and young people virtually, and the sexual assault referral centres are open and continuing to take self- and professional referrals. And what more can the Welsh Government do to shine a light on this now and as we move into different stages of lockdown in the future?

Mark Drakeford AC: Llywydd, can I endorse the central message that Jayne Bryant passed there, that the services that are there to protect children in these circumstances are there and are open and can be used? They may be operating in different ways to make sure that people are safe, but they are there and they are operating. And if you have concerns, and need those concerns to be raised, please don't think that, because of the pandemic, there aren't ways for you to do it.
The good news is that safeguarding referrals to those services, which were suppressed in the 'stay home' part of the lockdown experience, have recovered steadily in recent weeks, and they're now more or less back to the levels you would have expected in times when COVID-19 wasn't part of our experience. So, I think we can take a bit of heart from that that the public's willingness and ability to report concerns has returned to the levels we would have seen previously.
Reopening schools for all pupils to have a chance to speak to adults outside the home—trusted individuals in their teachers—is another very important part of all of this, and one of the reasons why we were keen to make the decision that we did. We know that, where schools have been open, then vulnerable young people have been more likely to go to that school if that school is their own school than if they're being asked to go to a school with which they are not familiar—a journey they don't know, teachers they haven't met. By reopening all schools, then those vulnerable children will be able to go to a place that they know already, are more likely to feel confident talking to people who are familiar to them, and, if there are concerns that need to be pursued, then the services are there now to make sure that that can happen.

Neil Hamilton AC: The Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development is forecasting today that Britain will suffer the worst economic damage of any country in the developed world as a result of our draconian lockdown. We're forecast to see an 11.5 per cent fall in our national income for this year. That compares with 6.5 per cent in Sweden, which has followed a completely different road. We're taking an economic sledgehammer to crack a health crisis nut, because the death rate in this country from coronavirus is 602 per million, whereas in Sweden it's only two thirds of that, at 467 per million. So, we see, in Britain, a wholly disproportionate response to the health crisis.
Meanwhile, does he understand—the First Minister understand—that hard-working and law-abiding citizens wonder why they're being kept locked down, even can't go to church, even for private prayer, because such events are banned, meanwhile left-wing hooligans are allowed to run riot in the streets, desecrating war memorials, defacing and destroying public monuments, and that the response of the Government in these two cases seems to be a massive contrast and undermines the message that the Government wants to convey?

Mark Drakeford AC: Well, Llywydd, I disagree with the Member. As he knows, I had the very sad responsibilityin my opening statement to refer to the 2,240 people who have so far lost their lives in Wales. I don't regard that as a 'nut'; I think that is demeaning to those people and to those families and to those who carry on having that experience every day and every week in Wales. So, I don't apologise for a single moment for the actions we have taken to prevent even further deaths from coronavirus. I don't dismiss for a single moment the economic damage that is being done and I'll need to attend to that properly, but I don't agree with him. I've heard him say it before—he wants to create some sort of division between what is right for people's health and what is right for the economy. What is right for the economy is to make sure that we come out of coronavirus in a cautious and careful way that does not plunge us back into a second wave with a further massive lockdown and everything that that would mean for the economy. Our way of responding to the health crisis is the best way to safeguard our economy from the enormous impact that coronavirus is having here in Wales, as it is right around the world.
Let me just respond to one further point, that of faith communities. We raised the matter on 29 April in the faith communities forum, with leaders of faith communities in Wales, about the reopening of venues for private prayer. At that point, the firm advice from leaders of those communities was that it wasn't practical for them to be able to reopen those venues in a way that is safe. I attended the last meeting of the faith communities forum last week. An enormous amount of work has gone on by those communities to put themselves in a position where they could now potentially reopen venues for private prayer. I was very impressed by all the practical things that they had thought about and were putting into place and we will consider that very seriously as we move to the end of the current three-week cycle.

Finally, Jack Sargeant. Where did Jack Sargeant go? He was there when I called him, and he's disappeared off my screen and is not to be heard. Therefore, I'll call Mick Antoniw as the final speaker.

Mick Antoniw AC: First Minister, across all parties, we very much welcomed some weeks ago now the £500 additional payment to be made to our front-line care workers in recognition of the extra contribution and the really important contribution they're making during this coronavirus pandemic. This was very much at the expense of £32 million of Welsh Government money for 64,000 of those workers.
I wonder if you could perhaps update us now as to two things: firstly, when those workers can expect to receive those payments, but, secondly, in respect of the issue of the tax and national insurance that would be chargeable to it. I know that you reported previously that representations had been made to the UK Government to waive the tax and national insurance because of the exceptional circumstances. I think across all parties we would see it as offensive if the UK Government were to have a financial windfall on the backs of our front-line care workers. Could you update us as to what stage the representations are with the UK Government with regard to waiving these deductions from the money that is rightly due to our front-line care workers?

Mark Drakeford AC: I thank Mick Antoniw for that question. I was very pleased last week, Llywydd, to be able to provide further details of how the scheme is to work and to be able to extend it to further groups of workers. We expect first payments to be made in this month and to continue into next month.
As far as the tax and national insurance position is concerned, let me just echo what Mick Antoniw said, Llywydd: we're not asking the UK Government for a penny towards the £32 million that we have been able to find for this purpose. We're not asking them to pay for it. All we're asking them to do is not to take money away from those workers who we intend to benefit from the scheme. So, there should be no Treasury windfall. We were discouraged by the letter we received on 2 June from the Financial Secretary to the Treasury, but that letter did contain an offer for officials to continue to work together on the proposition, and on Friday of last week, following what was reported to me as a constructive meeting, our officials did submit a technical paper to HMRC, presenting the arguments we make as to why these payments should not and need not be taxable. So, we will await their response, which we hope will come as soon as possible. We're not at the end of this discussion yet and we will continue as vigorously as we can to make the case that the money that is being provided by Welsh people to those people that we have relied on for such an enormous effort during the coronavirus crisis should not result in a windfall to the Treasury.

As he's now back and as he's our youngest Member, I finally call Jack Sargeant.

Jack Sargeant AC: Diolch yn fawr, Llywydd, and apologies for the earlier interruption. First Minister, I've been working with a number of businesses who have been refused insurance payments despite having paid for business interruption insurance. They are told that because coronavirus is not previously a specified disease, they cannot claim. Most reasonable people, like I'm sure all the Members of the Senedd are, would point out that COVID-19 has only existed since late last year, so it is very unlikely to be a specified disease. I don't feel this is good enough, First Minister. Large insurers who have been receiving payments from small businesses for a number of years are putting small businesses in all of our communities in real jeopardy. First Minister, will the Welsh Government investigate such cases as a matter of urgency?

Mark Drakeford AC: Llywydd, may I thank Jack Sargeant for that important point? He will not be surprised to learn that we've had a volume of correspondence on this matter from firms who believed that in good faith they had taken out insurance that would cover them in these circumstances, only to be told that now it doesn't, and we've been in correspondence as Ministers with the ABI—the Association of British Insurers—on this matter. Jack Sargeant will know that the regulator has decided to take a test case through the law courts to resolve this very specific point that he has raised. How could insurance policies have been designed to cover an eventuality that nobody had identified, and can that really be cited as an exemption that means the payments can't be made? It's a stand-off between the industry and those of us who believe that they should have acted otherwise, and it will now be for the law courts to resolve it.

I thank the First Minister.

3. Topical Questions

The next item would have been the topical questions, but no topical questions have been accepted, and we will therefore now break for a period of 60 minutes and we will recommence at 13:20. I thank the Members.

The meeting adjourned between 12:18 and 13:20.

The Senedd reconvened at 13:20, with the Deputy Presiding Officer (Ann Jones) in the Chair.

4. Statement by the Minister for Economy, Transport and North Wales: Response to Coronavirus (COVID-19)

Well, good afternoon, everybody. Welcome back after that break. We move into our Plenary agenda with item 4, which is a statement by the Minister for Economy, Transport and North Wales: response to coronavirus, COVID-19. I call on the Minister for Economy, Transport and North Wales, Ken Skates.

Ken Skates AC: Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. I'd like to begin by thanking Members across this Chamber, as well as my officials, social partners and our colleagues in local government, as well as, of course, our public services in Wales for the huge amount of work that they do each and every day supporting our national response to the COVID-19 pandemic. And I'm proud of what we've done so far to help mitigate the economic impact of this awful disease, and I am hugely appreciative of the hard work that everybody has put in.
I should say, Dirprwy Lywydd, that in terms of our response to coronavirus, we have now had a huge amount of businesses generate financial support from the Welsh Government in ensuring that they can survive the short-term period that we face, and that we are looking at the longer term recovery from coronavirus in a way that builds back a fairer, greener, more resilient economy.
Since publishing our road map for the recovery on 15 May, the Welsh Government has been planning the next stages of its work to ease the lockdown. We have always been clear that that work must be grounded on the science that is available to us, and with worker safety at the forefront of every single decision that we take. I've been meeting with partners through the shadow social partnership council regularly and I'll continue to do so in order to discuss the shared measures that we can take to gradually reopen our economy in a safe, sustainable and fair way, whilst continuing to support public health and our NHS. To help us achieve this we've used the dialogue with social partners to develop and to publish detailed guidance, setting out what employers and employees need to do to operate safely and, of course, lawfully.
The guidance that we have set out on the Welsh Government website is for all workplaces and does not replace legislation or industry-specific guidance. Dirprwy Lywydd, nor should it be considered as a substitute for legal advice, which employers and employees should consider obtaining where necessary. Each workplace is unique, and every one needs to do what is right for their own specific workers and customers.The Welsh Government has published in-depth guidance to support a safe return of the manufacturing sector, and further guidance for other key sectors will be published over the coming weeks. And we're consulting with Welsh businesses and with trade unions to ensure that our approach is proportionate and also fair to businesses and to workers. We want workplaces and workers in Wales to be safe, so we'll be asking all employers and employees to show care by acting with compassion and understanding; to comply with laws designed to keep us all safe; to involve everyone because safety is a shared endeavour; to adapt workplaces and behaviours; and to communicate with clarity and consistency.
As we begin the work of the economic recovery, I've been clear that the UK Government should not withdraw the important suite of support that they've put in place over the last few months. That's why we strongly welcomed the announcement on 12 May, by the Chancellor of the Exchequer, to extend the job support scheme on the current basis until the end of July, and on an amended basis until the end of October.The job retention scheme has been essential to enable large parts of the economy to hibernate through the last few weeks of lockdown.
In moving forward, we will continue to make the following arguments to the UK Government: first, that there should be no reduction in support in respect of businesses that cannot legally open; that reducing the volume of an employer’s workforce that can be furloughed would be preferable to a general tapering of the intensity of support; that any action must not push employers to jeopardise safe working because of financial pressures; and that the UK Government should make available grant support for businesses to make physical adaptations to ensure safer working.
In Wales, we have put in place the most generous package of help for businesses anywhere in the UK—a total of £1.7 billion of support. Yesterday, I was delighted to launch the new eligibility checker for the next phase of the economic resilience fund. The fund aims to plug the gaps in the support schemes announced by the UK Government, including the job retention scheme and the self-employed income support scheme.
Phase one of the ERF covered any sustainable business operating in Wales, of any age or type, that is VAT registered, that employs people via pay-as-you-earnand that has suffered a significant turnover impact. Phase two of the fund will operate in broadly the same way as phase one, but with an update to the eligibility of the micro scheme to enable limited companies that are not VAT registered to access the fund. The full applications phase is expected to open on or before 29 June. The second phase of the ERF will enable access to the remaining £100 million of the £300 million already approved and allocated to support micro businesses, SMEs and large businesses. Work is under way with stakeholders to develop further support options for those not yet reached—for example, start-up businesses—and I will make further announcements on that in the coming weeks.
Dirprwy Lywydd, I have said before that, in planning for the recovery, I want us to build back better: to use coronavirus as a moment for fundamental change in our economy, so that what comes after is fairer, more inclusive and more sustainable than what went before. And that's why I was extremely pleased this week to attend the socioeconomic sub-group of the BAME expert advisory panel. The sub-group, chaired by Professor Emmanuel Ogbonna, is helping the Welsh Government to identify the range of factors influencing adverse COVID-19 outcomes in BAME groups, and to look at wider inequalities in our economic life in Wales. I have been deeply impressed by the work of the sub-group and am under no illusion that, in Wales, we still have—despite a huge amount of good progress—structural and embedded inequalities in our economy that contribute to the unfairness and discrimination that still impacts black, Asian and minority ethnic groups. So, when we talk about building back better, it is to the work of the sub-group that I think we should turn for guidance and evidence in our quest for something fairer, and I want to put on record today the support of myself and my department to doing that work over the coming months and years. Dirprwy Lywydd, I'm happy to take questions.

Thank you. Helen Mary Jones.

Helen Mary Jones AC: Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. I'd like to thank the Minister very much for his statement, and just to say how much I welcome his emphasis on safety when it comes to opening up the economy. I hope that, across the Chamber, we would all agree with that.
Of course, the reopening of the criteria for the economic resilience fund is welcome, and I'm particularly pleased to say that for businesses not registered for VAT it will now be available. But, as the Minister has said himself, there are a large number of businesses still that are not being able to be helped, particularly businesses operating from home, and I've had everything from hauliers to hairdressers to bed and breakfasts—companies that are viable businesses, but are not paying business rates. The Minister mentions in his statement some further support for them. I wonder if the Minister can tell us today when he thinks he will be likely to be able to make that additional support, for example, for start-up businesses—when he's likely to be able to announce what that will look like.

Ken Skates AC: Can I thank Helen Mary Jones for her questions? I agree entirely that safety is absolutely vital in the workplace, not least because it's only through operating safely that people have the confidence to leave their own homes and to either return to work or access places of employment, businesses and attractions.
In terms of the very specific question concerning the remaining businesses that may require additional support, and in particular those start-ups, it is my hope that we'll be able to operate all support schemes concurrently from 29 June in terms of applications and then that we'll able to get financial support out as soon as possible, in all probability within a matter of days to businesses that apply at the earliest opportunity.

Helen Mary Jones AC: I'm grateful to the Minister for his answer to my questions. Thinking of safe return to work and the Minister talking about need for such a return to be done with compassion and understanding from businesses, can the Minister confirm this afternoon that those who are shielding at home, not because they are vulnerable themselves but because their family members are vulnerable, can he confirm that he does not expect businesses in Wales to be pressurising those people to return to work until the shielding rules change?
I'd associate myself with what he said about the need for the UK Government to make continued investment in the Welsh economy. The Minister will be aware of the report that showed that, out of the 20 towns likely to be worst hit in England and Wales, 10 of those were in Wales, and, of course, that's greatly out of proportion with our population. Will the Minister consider making representations to the UK Government that any further business support should be on a base of the scale of need in Wales for that support, rather than on what has become the traditional Barnett formula?
And will he continue to make representations to the UK Government particularly around the furlough scheme for those who have been left behind? Many of the people who were changing jobs at the time when the furlough scheme begun have now been 10 weeks without any income, and, for some of them, they're not eligible for other kinds of support. So, can I ask the Minister today to make representations again to the UK Government on their behalf and to consider further whether there is anything more that could be done for them by the Welsh Government, fully understanding of course the limits on his budget?

Ken Skates AC: Absolutely, I'll guarantee today that I'll make those representations, and in regard to what support we may be able to offer, if we were able to introduce a hardship bursary for any individuals that simply cannot benefit from existing support systems, then we will do so in partnership with our local government colleagues.
A significant number of businesses are still able to apply for support through the job retention scheme, the self-employment support scheme, without actually being aware that they are able to. So, I would urge all businesses to check with Business Wales whether they are eligible for Welsh Government or for UK Government support, because the vast majority right now are able to access financial support.
And Helen Mary Jones is absolutely right that employers need to act with compassion and understanding. Clearly, people who are shielded should not be expected to return to work if they are asked to do so, and they should have a letter available to them that would be able to be presented to an employer. For those individuals who are not shielded but are supporting shielded individuals, I would say that a responsible business must take account of that and must show complete understanding. And I would hope that businesses that are unionised would be particularly determined to ensure that all workers return in a safe way and in a way that doesn't put at risk anybody's lives or well-being.
And you're absolutely right, Helen Mary Jones, in saying that, based on the evidence that is emerging, Welsh communities stand to be adversely impacted above and beyond those across England because of the high reliance on sectors that are going to be particularly hard hit and for longer, and because of the age profile of the workforce in Wales, and because of historic reasons—reasons relating to de-industrialisation, for example.
As a consequence of this, we are absolutely clear that initiatives such as the UK industrial strategy must be shaped for Wales as well as for English regions, and the contact that I've had with the Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy has been very, very productive, and I do hope that the next iteration of the UK industrial strategy will significantly benefit the Welsh economy, because, as the Member has already stated, we can't have Barnettised support that doesn't recognise the scale of the need of the Welsh economy. Instead, we have to have support that reflects on the additional requirements of Welsh businesses and also of Welsh workers.

Russell George AC: Can I thank the Minister for his statement? I think much of it I also heard at the Welsh Government's 12:30 briefing today, which you led.
Minister, retail businesses in England will be reopening on Monday, and Welsh businesses, specifically those on the border, such as in your constituency and mine, will be disadvantaged. I wonder what you can say to these businesses in terms of giving them some hope that they'll be able to open at the earliest opportunity possible, and how would you address their concerns about being disadvantaged with perhaps a competitor opening just a few miles away from them?
I'm not only concerned about businesses across the border, but there are some retail businesses in Wales that are opening against Welsh Government guidance, and as much as I would like them to open, and believe they should, it's the law that they should not. I gave you one example yesterday, when we met privately. I wonder what you would say in terms of enforcement action against these kinds of businesses, and ensuring that local authorities are given the correct advice to these kinds of businesses, because it's absolutely unfair for retail businesses that are abiding by the law.
With regard to the next phase of the economic resilience fund, I'm very pleased that you've brought forward the date for the criteria. I'm very pleased that you widened the criteria, as you have. But I wonder if you could commit, Minister, to bringing forward the date from which businesses will begin receiving payments under phase 2 of the fund. I think it would be extremely disappointing and frustrating if businesses could not apply for assistance until the end of the month. I think, in many cases, and sadly, in some cases, that will just be too late. And there's also some massive concern, of course, as Helen Mary pointed out as well, that there are still some businesses that will not be eligible for support at all—B&Bs are one example—and I wonder if you could tell us more about the bursary. What can we tell our constituents when a business contacts us and we've told them to wait for phase 2, they've put all their hopes on that, they've checked the criteria and they still are not eligible for support, and they've had no Government support at all for businesses?

All right. Thank you. Minister.

Ken Skates AC: Thank you, Russell. First of all, I'd say with regard to businesses in borderland areas, we've got the benefit in Wales of having the regular review points, and so the dates are known to businesses. At the last review point, the First Minister said that, over the next three weeks, non-essential retail could begin a process of looking at how they may be able to reopen after the subsequent review point, if infection levels are sufficiently low. That next review point is coming on 18 June—just next week—so there's only a tiny time lag of a matter of days between what's happening in England and what's happening in Wales. But, obviously, it would've been desirable if we could've had those regular review points adhered to on both sides of the border, and ideally if the review points could have been at exactly the same time. That's not happened, but here in Wales we have stuck to what the First Minister has called that regular rhythm of three-week review points, giving some certainty and clarity to the business community of Wales.
Our confidence is absolutely key to the competitiveness of businesses. Still, around 60 per cent of people in Wales are too nervous to leave their own homes. So, quite frankly, if a business opens but two thirds of people are too scared to leave their own homes, they are going to struggle to make ends meet, they are going to struggle to be viable. So, as well as opening businesses, we have to ensure that people have confidence in order to access them. To do that, we've got to see the R number fall sufficiently for people to regain confidence, and we have to make sure that workplaces are safe for people to access. That's why the guidance that we're publishing on that is so very, very important.
If we can bring forward the application date, we clearly will do. We need to close off any existing applications for ERF round 1 funds to ensure that there is no duplication of applications and that we have completed all of the processing that needs to take place. There are a large number of businesses that we are now finding who are saying that they're ineligible for various support schemes, but we are subsequently finding actually are eligible, and this is why it's so important that businesses visit the Business Wales website, that they run through the eligibility checker and that they submit accurate details as well, because businesses such as—. The examples of B&Bs and market traders have been used. They should be eligible for the self-employment income support scheme, or, if they employ, they should be eligible for furlough. When they're not eligible for those, then, obviously, there could be the potential of the ERF being open to them. But if there are any businesses, once we have run through the process of establishing the start-up bursary, as well as ERF phase 2, then we would be able to look at supporting them through, potentially, a discretionary hardship bursary that could be administered by local authorities, and work is taking place with local authorities in that regard.
And then, to the final point regarding fair play across businesses, I would agree with Russell George that all businesses should adhere to the rules that have clearly been set out. Where they do not, then we will seek to take enforcement action against them. We are all in this endeavour together, and we must all abide by the rules and the guidance if we are to maintain social cohesion and if we are to maintain the best possible prospects for businesses to emerge from this virus intact.

Russell George AC: Turning, if I can, Minister, to transport, what work has been done to tackle the rolling stock shortage during the lockdown so that the practicalities of social distancing demand on public transport with severely reduced capacity can be met? Are there any plans for Transport for Wales to use this time of reduced services to make improvements to their rolling stock, and, if so, what are the targets?
How are you going to change the Welsh Government's economic approach as a result of how the pandemic has changed our economy? I appreciate what you've already said today, and I wonder if you could add timescales, perhaps, to what you've already stated. And second, what initial assessment have you made of how the pandemic has affected the economic performance of different regions of Wales?
The UK Government has expressed its intention to invest and bring forward spade-ready infrastructure projects to ensure that the UK economy can bounce back quickly, and, if you agree with that principle—and I hope you do—what infrastructure projects in Wales are spade ready?

Ken Skates AC: Can I thank Russell George for his further questions and say that we are in dialogue with UK Government regarding schemes that could be supported as part of the recovery? One such scheme is the global centre for rail excellence in south Wales. We're in discussions with UK Treasury, the Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy and the Wales Office regarding that scheme. There are other schemes, such as the proposed advanced technology research centre in Deeside, which would complement the advanced manufacturing research centre, and, of course, discussions are taking place, as you'll be, no doubt, aware, regarding the potential for enhancing renewable energy schemes in Wales, building on the expertise that we have in that particular field. So, in terms of the recovery, discussions are ongoing, submissions have been made to UK Government for financial support, and we're hopeful that those submissions will be met with approval.
I think, right across the globe at the moment, there is intense interest in acquiring, wherever possible, additional rolling stock. As you can imagine, every train operating company across Britain, across Europe and further afield is trying to find additional carriages that could be used in order to boost capacity at a time when capacity is reduced because of social distancing to 15 or so per cent. So, we are essentially, through Transport for Wales, in competition with train operating companies not just within the UK, but much further afield.
We are looking at how we can implement enhanced maintenance regimes, take the opportunity not just in terms of rolling stock, but also in terms of road infrastructure, to enhance what we have and what we're in control of. We're also looking at innovation, both on buses and on trains, to be able to increase capacity, if at all possible, whilst adhering to social distancing and also ensuring that public safety is not put at risk, recognising that the operation of the economy is inextricably linked to the safe operation of public transport systems.

David J Rowlands AC: Can I thank the Minister for his statement today? I think there is much in it that we would all in the Chamber agree with, and also, we acknowledge the many interventions that have been going on, put in place by the Welsh Government, and we thank you for those. Despite the considerable financial help that some businesses have been able to access, many of those in my constituency are now expressing deep concern about their ability to continue trading.
Obviously, those at the forefront of the current restrictions are pubs, restaurants and the service trades in general. I have evidence that some pub-based catering chains will not be reopening a number of their outlets post lockdown, with, of course, a subsequent loss of jobs—jobs that are often at the lower end of the skills market. So, notwithstanding your desire to keep people safe from infection, and we all agree with that, can the Minister urge the Government to ease restrictions on these trades as soon as possible? Because I believe irreparable damage is now being inflicted on the Welsh economy—damage that may never be reversed.

Ken Skates AC: Can I thank David Rowlands for his question? I repeat the point that I have made to previous speakers—that, in order to ensure that your business is operational, you have to be able to generate an income, and if people are not confident to access services, then they simply won't do so. So, in order to make sure that pubs and cafes and restaurants, when they decide to reopen their doors, can survive and make a profit, we have to ensure that people have confidence to access them. We have to make sure that they are operating in a safe way. We gave non-essential retailers notice at our previous review point that they should prepare for a safe reopening over the next three weeks, and the First Minister will be making a statement at the next review point regarding that work that is taking place, and the progress that's being made in terms of controlling the virus. There will then subsequently be review points at 9 July and also at 30 July. At those review points, we may be able to say more about other parts of the economy that can reopen safely, but ultimately, we have to ensure that the public are with us, because if you have people refusing to leave their homes, we are simply not going to be able to support the reopening of those important businesses in the hospitality sector and many other sectors as well.

Jenny Rathbone AC: I'm very pleased to receive your statement, particularly the point you're making that the work we do in the future must be grounded on the science, and also, that people's safety must be at the forefront of every decision we take. You'll be aware of the initial findings and research flagging up the possible link between air pollution and increased levels of COVID-19 transmission, for example in the Bergamo area of northern Italy. I'm very pleased that you've been engaged with the socioeconomic sub-group of the BAME expert advisory panel, chaired by Professor Ogbonna, so we can really understand the causes of why BAME people have been so disproportionately affected by COVID-19.
In the context of the safety of my constituents, I know that Cardiff Council is planning measures to prevent commuters or shoppers overwhelming our city centre, so that we don't have the pre-COVID traffic congestion that delivered dangerous levels of air pollution.
Beyond these immediate measures, then, I'm keen to understand the extent of your ambition to build back a better, cleaner, carbon-neutral Wales. How can we use the unique selling points that Wales has—both our geography, which makes us a major generator of renewable energy, and as a pioneer of hydrogen from renewables, which could enable us to become a European leader in cleaner transport and becoming a more carbon-neutral Europe. So I wonder if you have given consideration to this.

Ken Skates AC: Absolutely, and Jenny, I couldn't agree more. We've got the hydrogen arc in the north, with a huge degree of collaboration taking place between businesses and research institutions in north Wales and across the border in the Mersey Dee area. Then, of course, we've got some exemplary businesses in mid Wales regarding the potential use of hydrogen in road vehicles, with Riversimple perhaps leading the way in this regard. So, there is enormous opportunity in terms of exploiting research and development concerning hydrogen propulsion and hydrogen as a form of energy for other uses as well, particularly in business, for example.
In terms of the more general question about how we make sure that we build that better, well, it will require us to invest in more decarbonisation schemes, in fair work businesses—businesses that abide by and embrace fair work principles. It will require us to invest and focus our investment on businesses that prioritise skills enhancement of their workers and on the well-being and mental health of their workers. It will also require a stronger focus on supporting business growth, not just individual businesses' growth, but also growth within the supply chain that that business may be a part of or that that business supports.
So we're developing a range of principles that can be applied to our investment decisions in the coming months and years. But, crucially, we have to make sure that we take this opportunity to narrow inequalities in Wales, and that will require a concerted effort with regard to our employability interventions—interventions like Jobs Growth Wales, the apprenticeship programme, and schemes that will be able to be moulded and tailored to individual needs so that we give people from BAME communities and people who face disabling factors in society a far better chance of meeting their aspirations and goals than they had before coronavirus. That will be a key test for us.

Thank you. Suzy Davies.

Suzy Davies AC: Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. Thank you for your statement, Minister. First of all, can I just clear something up here, and this is the extension of support to non-VAT-registered operators? Does that just apply to limited companies, or does it apply to firms and sole traders as well? We've been speaking about tourism quite a lot today, and a few people have mentioned B&Bs and, of course, those very small B&Bs aren't likely to be VAT registered and also they're outside the business rates system as well, because they're too small to be allowed to be registered. So perhaps you could clear that up.
Secondly, as I think David Rowlands mentioned, we have still got businesses that are outside the ERF at the moment. I've had representations made by people who have actually been very successful, but can't actually access anything without giving personal guarantees, which they're reluctant to do because they're not sure about the viability of their business if they are in a sector that is going to be the last to open. So, I wonder if you could give us a little bit more detail on what you're looking at in that respect.

Ken Skates AC: Okay, thank you, Suzy, for your questions. First of all, yes, a business would have to be limited if they are not VAT registered in order to attract support from the second phase of the ERF. However, sole traders and partnerships are eligible and were eligible in the first round of the ERF, providing that they could meet the criteria of a drop in turnover, that they're VAT registered and that they employ via PAYE. I think there has been some confusion about some groups, particularly market traders, who have felt that they are not eligible for any support whereas, actually, market traders are eligible for support through the self-employment support scheme, unless they don't have accounts or unless they are paid above the threshold of £50,000. So, market traders generally, unless they are incredibly successful, affluent market traders, would be able to access support through the UK Government's self-employment support scheme.
We believe that the vast majority—the vast majority—of businesses will be captured through the second phase of the economic resilience fund. But, of course, as I've said to others, we are working with local authorities on the potential development of a hardship bursary, recognising that there may be unique circumstances that have prevented businesses and individuals from seeking and attracting and securing Government support, whether it be from UK Government, or from Wales.
In terms of ERF support, we're not asking for personal guarantees; of course, we wish to assure ourselves that businesses are viable, and that's absolutely right. In terms of the support that's been offered through the Development Bank of Wales, personal guarantees have been important to make sure that there is, if you like, for want of a better phrase, skin in the game; there is a full commitment to business development and business growth. I think, given that the Development Bank of Wales's first COVID loan scheme was so, so successful, I don't think that the criteria would need to be amended if the development bank returned with proposals for a similar second round of support.

Huw Irranca-Davies AC: Minister, there's a real worry that, out of necessity, many people, as we see the restrictions on coronavirus being eased to allow people to go back to work and to some elements of social movement as well, then it's going to be in private cars with individuals driving, no passengers, and that we risk, then, a rush back to a type of society and type of work that we really don't want to see. What we have seen more recently is that the curious externalities of this crisis have been clearer streets and roads, cleaner air, less air pollution and more liveable communities as well, with better quality of life for those people who are walking or cycling.
So, can I ask you, Minister, what work is being done by Welsh Government right now, but also as we transition out of coronavirus, to explore things with employers such as more flexible working, either working from home or staggered work times and staggered shifts, or hybrid models for employers, where employees can, to mix and match how they work from home and actually go into work? What are we looking at in terms of redoubling our efforts and our investment, not only in active travel as we've known with walking and cycling, but actually building more dedicated bus lanes so that as we emerge, we can use those more, and dedicated cycle routes as well?

Okay, thank you. Ken Skates to answer, please.

Ken Skates AC: Can I thank Huw Irranca-Davies for his questions? He's absolutely right that we need to lock in some of the benefits that have been accrued through people choosing not to use their car, through people instead undertaking active travel. I can inform the Member that we'll be investing millions upon millions of pounds in road reprioritisation schemes, first and foremost for temporary schemes that can test the ability of local authorities to be able to deliver longer term improvements, but also to make sure that those short-term behavioural improvements that we've seen become the long-term norm.
We're also looking, and we've begun the work, at a smarter working programme that will, essentially, encourage the private sector, the third sector and the public sector to adapt working shift patterns to ensure that people can work remotely, and to ensure that people can work in a way that aligns their working day with the provision of public transport so that they don't have to use their own car. And we're also looking at how this particular smarter working programme can dovetail with the work that colleagues in local government and housing are doing on the town centre first approach.
So, what we're keen to do is to utilise redundant buildings within town centres and high streets as shared spaces, remote working places, not just for the public sector, but also for the private sector and the third sector. It drives innovation, it enhances creativity, it's good for the economy, it's good for the environment, it's good for communities.

Thank you. Mark Isherwood. You need to unmute. You need to move your mike, Mark.

Mark Isherwood AC: Right. Small bed and breakfasts, already referred to, are a mainstay of many local economies across north Wales—real small businesses providing essential income for their owners. They're eligible for a business grant in England. After I questioned you three weeks ago about Welsh Government support for them, they told me they found your comments condescending and insulting. I then wrote to you, stating that they and the local economies they help to support are looking to you for help before it's too late. In your reply, you stated that the eligibility checker for the second phase of economic resilience fund for new applications will open mid-June. They responded, 'I understand there may be a glimmer of hope with the new economic resilience fund. So, fingers crossed, we may all have a new option then.' What have you therefore got to say to them now that they've told me, quote,'According to the checker, our business is still not eligible'?

Ken Skates AC: Can I thank Mark Isherwood for that question? I would, first of all, have to understand why they were not eligible for support through the ERF phase 2, but I will also say that we do have the most generous and comprehensive package of support for businesses anywhere in the United Kingdom. If they are not eligible for support through the ERF grant, I would be very keen to know whether they've been able to secure support to date through the job retention scheme, through the self-employment support scheme, or any other scheme. And if that is not the case, if they are truly are not able to attract support, and if they have seen a huge decrease in their turnover as a result of coronavirus, and if they do depend on those business operations for their livelihood, and if they meet all of that criteria, then, of course—of course—they are a business that we wish to support, and that is why we are carrying out work with our local authority colleagues on the potential introduction of a hardship bursary that will run alongside the ERF phase 2.
But, first and foremost, I would need to understand the circumstances that those businesses are in, because, as I've said, there is, in some parts, a misunderstanding about what is actually available at a UK-Government level, and some businesses—only some, but some businesses—have been waiting to check whether they are eligible for more support from the Welsh Government schemes before applying for support from those UK Government schemes. It's absolutely vital, given the finite pot of money that we have, that if a business is able to get support through the job retention scheme, or through the self-employment support scheme, they go to those schemes first, because our finite resource, the economic resilience fund, is designed to plug the gaps. Now, if the businesses that you're referring to, Mark, are truly falling through the gaps, we want to help them.

Rhianon Passmore AC: Will the Minister outline progress around aviation support from the UK Government? As he's aware, British Airways is proposing pan-Wales job losses, and amalgamating Blackwood jobs, potentially, in my constituency to the city of Cardiff, which would result in the closure of their site in Blackwood and the loss of high-skilled and high-value, well-paid jobs to the Valleys. What is his understanding of the use of job retention furlough payments of public money when BA indicates it is going to not retain these staff but make them redundant, while, obviously, a clear market leader, holding large reserves, which has just purchased a Spanish air subsidiary? Will he then outline how the Welsh Government can further assist and support this valued workforce when dealing with this employer who is totally unable to consult its workforce as is required during this period? And would he agree with me that British Airways must now pause and rescind their section 188 notice whilst aviation sectoral support is being determined?

Ken Skates AC: Well, can I thank Rhianon Passmore, and say that I think, in general, Members across the Chamber and Members in the UK Parliament are speaking with one voice with regard to the announcement from BA? And I think Kelly Tolhurst's critique in the House of Commons was appropriate and correct, and I think it's absolutely right that British Airways are held to account for the decisions that are being made, that they don't seek to exploit the job retention scheme in the way that it appears they may have done so, and that the loss of jobs, if there is indeed to be a loss of jobs, is kept to an absolute minimum.
Now, if we look at what support is being offered to the UK aviation sector, compared to what's happening elsewhere around the globe, I'm afraid it should leave us with serious concerns about the future viability of the sector. Just yesterday we saw the announcement of a huge—huge—support package for aerospace in France. It amounts to £12 billion in grants. Cathay Pacific received a £4 billion bail-out from the Hong Kong Government, and by contrast, to date, we have not seen vitally important support thrown the way of UK aviation businesses. Time is running out for many regional airports, for many airlines, and for huge numbers of people who are employed in this vitally important sector. So, I would encourage the UK Government to come forward with an ambitious strategy for aviation, and one that is backed up with investment.

Jack Sargeant AC: Minister, I'd just like to pick up on your last comments, really, on the support for the aviation sector in Wales. As you rightly mentioned, the French Government have provided a huge support package for this industry, which has not been forthcoming from the UK Government. Would you join me in urging the UK Government to get round the table—because it is about time they get round the table—with your ministerial colleagues, with the trade unions, and with industry leaders, to create a package of support and implement those measures to our very important industry?

Ken Skates AC: Well, I'd agree entirely with that statement, Jack Sargeant. And I'm sure that many other politicians across the United Kingdom, in other devolved administrations, would agree as well. I've spoken with counterparts in Northern Ireland, for example, who are very anxious about the state of the aviation sector there. And there are concerns in Scotland as well, in many parts, many regions, of England, and particularly in those areas of the UK that are really fragile right now, in terms of the economic status of their respective places. And it's vitally important, therefore, that the UK Government shows strong leadership, that it uses the fire-power that it and it alone has to support the sector, and that it does so without delay. And there are some specific schemes in Wales that could be supported that would enhance the prospects of the aviation sector. I could point again back to the advanced technology research centre that is proposed for Deeside, the work that the UK Government could do in supporting the advanced manufacturing research centre around Airbus's determination in Broughton to capture the wing of tomorrow. These projects are going to be hugely important if the aviation and aerospace sectors of the UK are going to survive this turbulent period.

Janet Finch-Saunders AC: Minister, you'll be aware that tourism usually generates more than £3.2 billion in revenue every year, with 40,000 Welsh hospitality jobs across Wales. The economic benefits to Conwy is £900 million. The sector is in a perilous state. We have already lost a number of hotels in Aberconwy, and many others have warned that not opening in August would be nothing short of disastrous. What are your intentions for reopening our hospitality accommodation that is not self-contained? Will you provide a timeline so that they can prepare in advance? Will you work with stakeholders in the sector, such as the British Holiday and Home Parks Association, to agree a plan for how social distancing can be implemented in the reopening of our vital tourist accommodation? Will you allow the opening of restaurants, pubs and bars on 4 July, as is being considered in England? And finally, will you please open the Welsh Mountain Zoo? Social distancing can take place there, as it's outdoor activity? It's a must-do; please do it, Minister.

Ken Skates AC: Can I thank Janet Finch-Saunders for her questions, and first of all assure her that huge support has been offered to the Welsh Mountain Zoo? And the Welsh Mountain Zoo, unlike zoos in England, has not been required to stay closed; it's legislation that was introduced in England in the last week to keep zoos closed that's prevented zoos from reopening. Here in Wales, that legislation does not apply. The reason that zoos in Wales are not able to open at the moment is because they would simply not be able to generate the footfall and therefore be able to generate the income to make it financially viable to open right now. Why? Well, because, as I've already stated, more than 60 per cent of people in Wales—and that's a figure that's reflected in many, many parts of the UK—are too nervous to leave their own homes, never mind to access businesses, to go to visitor attractions. But the fact of the matter is that businesses that rely on visitors—those visitor attractions—will require people to have the confidence to access them. People won't have the confidence unless the R number is brought down sufficiently for them to feel confident, unless we really are making sure that the virus is fully under control.
Now, in the meantime, the sort of support that's being offered to zoos in Wales, I think, has been extraordinary, bearing in mind that we did not get a single penny of consequentials, based on the UK Government's zoos fund announcement. Now, we have opened up the economic resilience fund to zoos in Wales. There are 30 registered and licensed zoos in Wales. We've written to each and every one of them to ensure that we fully understand the implications of coronavirus and so that we understand where we might be able to assist. And as a result of the economic resilience fund, we've been able to make eight offers of support to zoos in Wales. The Welsh Mountain Zoo is one of those to have benefited from the economic resilience fund. It's also benefited from the Development Bank of Wales's COVID-related loan scheme—two schemes that are exclusive to Wales, and that support amounts to £335,000. Contrast that—had we got a Barnettised consequential of the UK Government's zoos fund, it would have amounted to just £700,000, which would have been nearly double what has been spent on just one single zoo in Wales. That demonstrates why we can say confidently that zoos in Wales have been better protected through this pandemic than elsewhere.
I am determined to make sure that we do all we can to support the safe reopening of zoos when they choose to reopen, but—I have to stress again—what is going to be crucially important is that the general public have the confidence to leave their homes and to go and visit such attractions. Because if people don't have confidence, they won't go to them—they won't hand over money for tickets, income won't be generated, and what will happen then? We only get one shot at reopening businesses and at reopening attractions.
It will be impossibly difficult for the Welsh Mountain Zoo, or any other zoo for that matter, to be able to put their workforce back into furlough without the UK Government giving any indication that that would be possible. It will be impossibly difficult as well, once a zoo is open and then chooses to close, to provide sufficient confidence in the term afterwards to guarantee that they will be able to reopen and then stay open. So, we've offered the certainty of the review points, and the next review point is on 9 July and then 30 July. And we've said to people, with the certainty of those review points, 'You'll be able to plan for reopening, where we believe that it can be carried out safely, and that those physical adaptations that are required for a business to reopen, or an attraction to reopen, can be implemented in a timely fashion.'

John Griffiths AC: Minister, we've seen major investment in the electric car industry across the world, and as we look for economic opportunities coming out of COVID-19, I would suggest that the UK really should develop a first-class manufacturing capacity for electric cars and everything that needs to go around that. And in Newport, of course, we have the Orb works, which could manufacture the electrical steels required for such an industry. Would you continue to talk with UK Government, the trade unions and business, Minister, to emphasise this huge opportunity and make sure that the UK, Wales and the Orb works in Newport do not miss out?

Ken Skates AC: Well, thank you, John Griffiths, and I agree that the future will see the uptake of ultra low emission vehicles intensified and accelerated, but I would also hope, as we emerge from coronavirus, we see the use of public transport increase as well, and that we see active travel increase significantly. So, we're keen to ensure that investment is made in the infrastructure that can support active travel, in the infrastructure and the services that support public transportation, and that we and the UK Government, through the UK industrial strategy, are able to invest strategically to support the development of the very best ultra low emission vehicles and also that we use our emerging technologies, such as those that concern hydrogen. And, John, you've made a very powerful case on numerous occasions for the Orb works to be considered as part of this exciting programme of works, and I can guarantee that we will continue to press upon the UK Government the presence of that facility and the potential of that facility in this important agenda.

Thank you. Mandy Jones. Can somebody open Mandy's mike, please?

Mandy Jones AC: Is that okay?

Fine, carry on.

Mandy Jones AC: Thank you, Deputy Llywydd. Thanks for your update, Minister. As we all know, Wales relies on tourism, and nowhere more so than the region I represent and the one for which you have ministerial responsibility. Tourism's big business. We do it well in Wales. People love coming here for holidays. They spend their money improving our economy. But I'm being told by the caravan park sector in particular that business is draining away to England and a bad situation is being made worse as site fees are reliant on parks being accessible. So, people want refunds and, if standards are to remain high, maintenance costs will still be there. Businesses are losing faith.
My questions are: what representations have you made to your Cabinet colleagues with regard to the gradual reopening of caravan parks in particular, which are mostly distanced apart? If Wales continues with restrictions that differ to the rest of the UK, what further support will you offer these businesses to ensure that the Welsh tourism industry is open to all? Graham Evans, from Parkdean Resorts, has asked if you are prepared to have a Zoom meeting with him. Would you be okay with that? And, finally, if the point of lockdown was to flatten the curve, I congratulate your Government on your success. So, will you—? Do you know when Wales will be open for business? Thank you.

Ken Skates AC: Well, can I thank Mandy Jones not just for her questions, but also for her helpful comments and a request for a Zoom meeting with a constituent? I'll clearly engage with my colleague the Deputy Minister for Culture, Sport and Tourism over who may be the most appropriate to have that meeting, but we are keen to engage with as many businesses in the tourism and hospitality sector as we possibly can, as we go about planning the recovery period and the safe reopening of businesses.
As I've said to others, there are regular review periods that we have and, at the last review period, the First Minister indicated that non-essential retail should take advantage of three weeks of planning for reopening. The next review period will be next Thursday, and then, following that, there will be a review period that will last until 9 July.
Elsewhere in the UK, we've yet to have a date for when tourism and hospitality may resume. Scotland and Northern Ireland—currently they're looking at 20 July, and in England it may be, at the earliest—and the Secretary of State for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy yesterday I felt was at pains to stress 'at the earliest'—4 July, and there was also the very strong caveat that it's dependent on infection rates being sufficiently low.
What I don't want to do—what none of my colleagues want to do—is to raise false hope, to say that, 'On this specific date you can prepare to reopen'. Instead, when we make announcements, we want to be able to deliver on them. We want businesses to have the surety of knowing that they're going to be able to reopen. I think the last thing that businesses in any sector want is to be told that they should plan for a certain date and then, just before that date, be told, 'Actually, we're going to u-turn on it and we're not going to allow you to reopen'. Because, once you've started the process of pulling your workers out of furlough, it's incredibly difficult to reverse that. You can't put your workforce back into furlough. Those fixed costs that come with reopening, they have to be paid for by that business, and so we have to have the certainty that we can carry through announcements. And that's why we have the three-week review periods, that's why we have review points every three weeks, and I can say, again, that the next review points are coming up on 18 June and 9 July.
We, across Government, are having extensive talks regarding caravan parks and other parts of the tourism and hospitality sector with regard to how they could reopen safely. And the latest of those discussions took place just two days ago. It involved the Deputy Minister for Culture, Sport and Tourism, it involved Eluned Morgan, the Minister for International Relations and the Welsh Language, it involved myself, and it also involved the First Minister. I think that demonstrates how seriously we’re taking this matter, how keen we are to make sure that businesses can reopen as soon as possible, but we want to ensure that we can stick to any date that we announce, because we've seen too many examples elsewhere where dates have been announced, but they haven't actually been delivered.

David Rees AC: Minister, the Welsh Government has funded many businesses—I think, in your press release earlier today, you indicated that over 8,000 businesses have benefitted from the economic resilience fund. Now, that fund is about £400 million and for small and medium-sized enterprises, and I'm sure you and I appreciate that some of our anchor businesses, such as the air industries, mainly in the north, and the steel industries, mainly in the south, would eat that money up in one go, and therefore one business would get that. Therefore, the funding and the levers are not necessarily with the Welsh Government but with the UK Government. And we've heard an awful lot about Project Birch and how it's supposed to be helping these types of industries. To date, we've seen nothing happen and we know that the industries are going to be facing crucial times ahead of us as other European countries are helping their steel sectors, and China is also coming out of this. Are you knocking on the doors of Westminster and even 10 Downing Street to demand that the UK Government now enacts Project Birch and supports these large businesses, because they are the mainstays of much of our economies, both in the north and south of Wales?

Ken Skates AC: Well, can I thank David Rees for his question? He's absolutely right that only the UK Government has the financial resource to be able to support the sectors with the sort of intervention that's required, particularly aerospace and steel. They are two sectors that are now standing items on the quadrilateral calls that take place between myself and the economy Ministers in the devolved administrations and with BEIS.
Project Birch, of course, should be utilised to support sectors and businesses across the UK, but in a way that recognises the needs rather than—as Helen Mary Jones touched on a little earlier—what might be considered a fair and equal split through Barnettising support. We have to ensure that support for steel and aerospace through Project Birch—and I am hopeful that UK Government are listening to our calls for support through that particular intervention—that the support that comes our way recognises that, in those two vitally important sectors, we have a disproportionately high number of people employed in Wales, and therefore we would expect, through Project Birch and, in the longer term, through the industrial strategy, the new iteration of the industrial strategy, to have a larger share of the financial resource from those particular interventions.
Finally, I should just say that the third sector that is always, always discussed on those quadrilateral calls is tourism, and I've been at pains to stress the role that UK Government has in developing a support scheme that recognises that, even if businesses within the tourism sector reopen in the coming month or so, they are still going to face challenges in terms of generating enough revenue. They are not going to see the sort of revenue generation that was apparent in 2019, because public confidence is not going to be returning to what it was before coronavirus, and therefore there will need to be a support scheme, regardless of whether or not businesses reopen within the tourism sector. And, again, only the UK Government has the financial firepower to be able to deliver such a scheme for the tourism sector.

Thank you very much, Minister.
I've had notice of a point of order from Janet Finch-Saunders. Janet Finch-Saunders.

Janet Finch-Saunders AC: [Inaudible.]

Ken Skates AC: Janet, we can't hear you.

I could.

Janet Finch-Saunders AC: I'm just very disappointed—thank you—that, when I raised my question with you, and I mentioned the Welsh Mountain Zoo, you came back—

No, no—sorry. Sorry, your point of order is to me as to conduct in the Chamber. So, please refer your point of order to me, and I will make a decision on it. Thank you.

Janet Finch-Saunders AC: Okay. Thank you. When I raised my question to the Minister about the Welsh Mountain Zoo, he came back in his response and maintained that there hadn't been a Barnett consequential to Wales for the zoos. I have it on good authority, in writing, that a Barnett consequential has come across. So, I would like the Minister to correct that statement, please.

Okay. I will review what exactly was said and we'll come back to deal with this at the end of the session.

Ken Skates AC: There's been no consequential.

We'll come back to it at the end of the session. Thank you.

5. Statement by the Minister for International Relations and Welsh Language: Coronavirus (COVID-19)

We now move to item 5, which is a statement by the Minister for International Relations and the Welsh Language on coronavirus, COVID-19, and I call on the Minister for International Relations and the Welsh Language, Eluned Morgan.

Eluned Morgan AC: Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. COVID-19 is continuing to have a substantial impact on my portfolio and department, and events overseas are having an impact on us here in Wales. Whilst in Wales we're seeing reductions in the rates of infection, it's worth noting that WHO officials have said that the global situation is worsening. There have now been nearly 7 million confirmed cases of coronavirus reported across the globe, along with 400,000 deaths. We have a long way to go, and, for a number of countries, it is possible that the worst is yet to come. Our commitment to developing nations has continued throughout this pandemic, as well as our commitment to fair trade, which has been given particular prominence this month as we are celebrating our twelfth anniversary as a Fairtrade Nation.

Eluned Morgan AC: I want to underline the shock and anger felt by Welsh Government and by so many across Wales and the globe at the killing of George Floyd by a police officer, and the subsequent draconian response by the President of the United States. US citizens are rightfully protesting against overt racism faced by black people, which seems to be entrenched in some institutions. It's clear that the Welsh Government may not have the devolved powers to directly challenge the actions of the Government of another country, but I think we do have the moral obligation to speak out. As our health Minister, Vaughan Gething, stated:
'We must challenge racism, inequality and injustice wherever we find it, including right here at home'.
Now, we know without question that institutionalised racism is not a problem reserved to the USA. We've got a long way to go in our own country to address this issue, but we've made clear our solidarity with all those protesting. But solidarity is not enough. We must be prepared to challenge other countries, particularly when those actions create a response here in Wales. In that vein, I've written to the Foreign Secretary of the United States setting out the position of the Welsh Government and requesting that the President of the United States is reminded of his obligations to respect human rights and to ask if he'll acknowledge, without condition, that black lives matter.
I've also asked our international relations team to monitor the worrying situation in Hong Kong and to underline our commitment in the Welsh Government to the principles of democracy, the rule of law and human rights.
Now, we've used the invaluable information provided by our international offices on how other overseas Governments are easing the lockdown to help shape our planning and our response here in Wales.
The clock is ticking in relation to developing a new relationship with the EU, and, when the transition phase ends, our current trading relationship with many other countries in the world also comes to an end. We're aware of the recent media reports regarding US trade negotiations, and in particular the growing concern with regard to the lowering of UK food and animal welfare standards, and the potential import of chlorinated chicken is of great concern. The UK Government has provided assurances to us that they will not agree to lowering standards in any future trade deals, and that's something that they promised in their manifesto and that we will hold them to.
I'd like to turn now to tourism. There's been a great deal of interest in that this afternoon. From the First Minister down, we're all acutely aware of the scale of the challenge facing the tourism, hospitality and the events sector, and, since the crisis began, the Deputy Minister and I have been meeting regularly with industry leaders. We know that when the summer season is gone, it's gone. It's therefore critical that we continue to work with the industry and local communities to ensure a safe return to tourism as soon as the public health position allows. We know that the industry would like us to provide a date as to when the industry can resume, but we've said consistently that we'll be driven by the science, and not by dates, and will only ease restrictions when the medical advicesays it's safe for us to do so.
We've promised that we'll give the industry three weeks' notice as a minimum in order to prepare for reopening and we're giving detailed consideration as to when we can signal it will be approaching the right time to reopen shared accommodation without facilities, which is set out in the amber zone of the First Minister's programme. We're conscious that the industry will be watching next week's 21-day statement very closely and will be looking for a signal from the First Minister in terms of the tourism sector.
We're acutely aware that as businesses approach August, they'll be required to contribute financially to the furlough scheme, and we understand the importance of these dates to businesses. So, we're preparing—and we're preparing in detail—and that's included developing detailed guidance and protocols to support the sector and protect the community and staff and visitors.
Our package of support to the industry is the most generous in the UK, particularly through our bespoke economic resilience fund, under which, as of 5 June, we've awarded over £10 million to tourism businesses, safeguarding over 4,500 employees. And as you've heard, phase 2 of the fund will pave the way for further tourism businesses to access these funds. We'll continue to press the UK Government on extending the furlough scheme or creating a bespoke package for the sector.
Unfortunately, the events industry is likely to be the last to recover, and we're looking to work even more closely with organisers across Wales to consider the way forward. The culture and arts sector is also under extreme pressure. These organisations are often the beating heart of our communities, and they'll be even more important in the future.
We've worked closely with all our key stakeholders to offer advice and guidance and we've prioritised our responses to those activities most critical in the short term, and on supporting organisations with cash-flow problems and general hardship. And we're also providing guidance on the safe return of sport and the reopening of facilities when the conditions are right.

The Llywydd took the Chair.

Eluned Morgan AC: With regard to the Welsh language, I am delighted that learning Welsh has become so popular during this lockdown period. Less than two weeks after the start of lockdown in Wales, the National Centre for Learning Welsh launched new Welsh language classes, with 8,300 new people joining.
And may I extend my congratulations to the Urdd on the holding of the Eisteddfod T? Over 6,000 people competed, with many of these being new audiences for the eisteddfod. It was a pioneering event for S4C and the Urdd, it was broadcast live, and this was the largest digital live broadcast for children and young people in the UK during the COVID-19 period.
The Urdd's peace and goodwill message was broadcast on 18 May. The young people of Wales asked us to stop the clock in response to COVID-19, to think about how we want to live in the future. That message reached 37 million people around the world, in 57 languages, including all the languages represented by the British-Irish Council.
The challenges related to the virus will continue for some time to come, but I am confident that in time, we will come through this as a country. It's worth quoting Waldo Williams here:
Let Hope be our master: may Time be our servant.
Thank you.

Helen Mary Jones AC: Thank you to the Minister for the statement.

Helen Mary Jones AC: If I can begin by wholeheartedly associating myself and my party with the Minister's comments about the situation in the United States of America, and express how very pleased I am that she has felt able to write on behalf of Wales as a nation and express our concerns. The Minister's right, of course, when she says that no nation, sadly, is exempt from this kind of prejudice and discrimination. Further to Adam Price's question to the First Minister earlier, will she have further discussions with her ministerial colleagues to discuss the opportunity to open a specific museum highlighting the history and the contribution of people from black and ethnic minority communities to us here in Wales? I'm sure that she would agree with me that one of the best ways to counter prejudice and discrimination is particularly for our young people to understand the history better.
With regard to tourism, I fully understand what she says about not wanting to try to give dates; it is impossible, clearly, to do so. But she mentions in her statement that there will be further sectoral guidance for businesses as to how they can open safely. This will be very much welcomed, but I'm sure the Minister will understand that that guidance needs to be available as soon as possible, so that if, for example, businesses need to make physical adjustments, whether that's adjustments to a bar or to a boat, that they have time to put that in place, and also that they are able to retrain their staff if that's necessary.
I wonder if she can tell us today when she expects to have the outcome of the discussions that I'm very much welcoming that she has with the UK Government. Because, again, businesses may—. It will help businesses enormously if they know what kind of support may be available when the current packages come to an end, and what that looks like.
With regard to the cultural and arts sector, the Minister, of course, is quite right to say how important these institutions are, and I'd like to commend, for example, the Arts Council of Wales, in the way that they've responded to and worked with the sector. Does the Minister agree with me that it may be possible for us to open some of our key institutions—I'm thinking of the folk museum at St Fagans, for example—sooner than others? And that if we do so, we may want to put in place some kind of priority system, so that particularly young people get access to this very important history. And can the Minister tell us any more about the support that's been provided through the arts council for freelancers in the creative sector? My understanding is that that scheme's been very successful, but that it may be oversubscribed.

You'll need to come to an end now, and I'll come back to you in a couple of minutes after the Minister's responded to the first set of questions.

Helen Mary Jones AC: I do apologise. I'll end it there and I'll come back.

The Minister.

Eluned Morgan AC: Thank you very much, Helen Mary, and thank you for your support on our stance and our response to the Black Lives Matter issue here in Wales, and for the message that we clearly want to convey to the United States.

Eluned Morgan AC: Can I just say, in terms of the museum, I was very interested to hear the response of the First Minister earlier in relation to the idea of developing some kind of museum? We'll certainly explore that as a department and have a look what the opportunities are there. I do think it is essential for us to recognise the influence and the impact and the way that black people have contributed to Wales over the years, and that that should be recognised. It's quite incredible to me that there have been people, for example, attending Sir Thomas Picton School in Haverfordwestwho have no idea about who he was or what he did, and I think that is clearly something that needs to be addressed.
I also think, in relation to the sectoral guidance that you talked about, we're just putting the finishing touches to the sectoral guidance that will be available for hotels, for facilities, for sporting facilities, for tourism attractions. All of that work has been painstakingly done over a number of weeks in co-ordination and in consultation with representatives from the sector. So, that is all available, and will be available in the next week or so, and so of course that will then help people to put some measures in place.
When we're talking about the packages that may be available from the UK Government, obviously already I know that the finance Minister has written to the Treasury to ask for an extension to the furlough, and even to consider that particular sectors like the tourism sector will need some special attention. But, I think there is a recognition that this is beyond our ability to fund from here in Wales.
On the issue of the folk museum, we already indicated in the last 21-day review that open-air museums would be able to open in the near future, so we've given them time to prepare. I know that St Fagans has already been doing a huge amount of work to get prepared and to be ready for that, and to make sure that those guidelines that they've developed are being very strictly adhered to, which I hope will give confidence to the public when that opens that it will be safe for them to enter the museum.
And then, just finally on the arts council package, you'll be aware that a £17 million fund was reprogrammed from within existing budgets. Some of that fund—. For the arts there was a £7 million arts resilience fund, and there were opportunities for, as you say, freelancers to be able to access that. I know that a lot of that money has already been earmarked, but there is definitely an opportunity for freelancers to ask for support from that funding.

Helen Mary Jones.

Helen Mary Jones AC: Thank you, Llywydd, and I'll be brief. I must admit to having forgotten that I'd got a second lot of questions. I do apologise.
Can I just ask the Minister—? I agree with everything that she said about the fact that they've adapted brilliantly. But, I'm told that we've had a big upswing in people wanting to learn Welsh online, which is obviously really encouraging. I know that she's had to reprofile her budget, but is the Minister confident that there is sufficient resource available for those coming forward wishing to learn Welsh at this difficult time to be able to do so?
With regard to the Black Lives Matter campaign, will she consider talking to the education Minister about how we might better reflect the history of black and ethnic minority people in Wales in our curriculum as we move forward? I very much take her point about young people studying in Thomas Picton school probably don't know who he is. Then, in that context also, whether she will consider in the medium term—this is not something immediate—looking at those historic monuments, those public buildings, and the people that they are named after, to see whether it's time for us to undertake a similar review to the one that is being done in London, to ensure that we are not memorialising people whose histories we would not wish to reflect.

Eluned Morgan AC: Thank you. Just to say that, in terms of the support given to online learning of Welsh, I think that that has been hugely successful. Obviously, it's considerably cheaper than doing things face to face. So, all of that funding that was being done in terms of face-to-face contact is now being done online. What is interesting is, actually, more people turn up to the classes online than did in the physical classroom, so I think that there's a real opportunity for us to rethink the way that we deliver Welsh language teaching to adults in Wales. So, I'm very pleased with the way that things are moving. Obviously, some people have a bit of time on their hands at the moment to be able to develop their language skills, and we're thrilled to see that.
I know that the education Minister is intensely aware of the importance of telling Wales's histories, and it's very much an issue of talking about the plural histories of Wales. That has got to include black lives. I know that the First Minister is very keen and understands that it should be a matter for every school in Wales, and that is something that I know that the education Secretary is looking at in terms of the new curriculum and how that can be built in. Obviously, it would make sense for different schools around the country to respond to what happened to them locally. So, you do need to give flexibility, and I think that that's the whole purpose of the new curriculum—that people are able to respond to what's happening locally as well.
On the situation in relation to monuments in Wales, it is clear that we shouldn't be celebrating the deeds of people in the past where we have real concerns about, ethically, what that represents for us. I think that we've already seen in Cardiff city council that that debate has started, and I'm sure that we will see that debate now occur across Wales—in local authorities across Wales. I do hope that people will look at some of the other statues and monuments that exist in Wales that perhaps are of people we shouldn't be celebrating, and there's an opportunity, I hope, for us to focus on that.
But, I know that the equalities Minister is very keen to look at how we develop in this space. This is something that she was looking at way before the killing occurred in the United States. The race equality action plan is already being developed. So, I'm really confident of the fact that, actually, we are incredibly aware that there are still real disadvantages for black people within our communities, and that we do need to focus on that, particularly now during the coronavirus time.

David Melding AC: Can I start, Minister, by affirming on behalf of the Welsh Conservative Party that black lives matter? I do hope that thebrutal death of George Floyd is seen in future as an axial moment, when something happened not just in the United States but all over the world, and especially in our case in Wales and in the UK, when we did examine our own history and particularly our attitudes and our striving for greater equality, but how that falls short particularly in terms of racial equality.
I'm reminded of work that Helen Mary and I helped do 20 years ago, when the then first equalities committee—it was thought to be very innovative then, incidentally, when we had devolution for the first time—looked at the Lawrence report and we did recommend that the curriculum examine the role of the Bristol channel in the slave trade, which, whilst it was based on Bristol, did involve the south Wales ports as well. It's sobering to think that, 20 years on, there's still a huge amount to do, although we have made progress as well.
Can I just say that I do think it's for each generation to decide how their most prominent public spaces are used and how they're used to commemorate or celebrate particular personalities or wider collective causes? I think it should be done with reflection and deep consideration, because it needs to be a learning experience for everyone, for wider society. Therefore, I do not like the thought that these matters are settled on impulse, however strong and sincere that is, and not with a proper process. I hope the culture committee meeting tomorrow will start to look at this heritage aspect of who is celebrated and where and how we have an appropriate way of dealing with these sometimes very contentious issues.
I just, in my first set of questions, want to ask one specific on tourism. I think there is a consensus now in the Chamber that self-catering accommodation can be opened up, and that now needs to proceed quickly. There is a question about many caravan and motorhome parks that have shared facilities but could close them and then allow caravans and motorhomes in, and they, having their own facilities, being able to use pitches would at least permit a level of business in those parks. I have raised this issue already in a written question, and I do hope that there's a fuller answer and a fuller policy so that we have the flexibility for those that can show they've closed the shared facilities that they have on site, so that they can open then just for the self-catering units that are there. But I do ask you to look at that specific question when the next lockdown review occurs in a week or so's time.

Eluned Morgan AC: Thank you very much. First of all, thank you to the Conservative Party for confirming their support for Black Lives Matter, as I would expect. So, it's really good that we have very much a consensus in terms of our approach here in Wales.
In relation to the curriculum, there are core aspects of the areas of learning and experience within the new curriculum that very much will underline the importance of looking at this as an issue within the curriculum. But, again, it will be up to those people locally to determine how they develop that and approach that.
On the issue of tourism, I can assure you that we are doing a lot of extremely detailed work in terms of what may be able to open during the amber phase. We're looking at what constitutes shared accommodation or shared facilities, and we are certainly looking at the issue of caravan parks and whether they would be able to open if they were to close those shared facilities. So, that is certainly something that we are already undertaking.
Can I just underline that, of course, we're all anxious to see things get back to normal in some of our key tourism areas in particular, but, just to underline that, whatever we do, we have to bring the community with us? I think there's still a lot of nervousness in some parts and we need to develop that confidence. I think these guidelines that we've been setting out, and that we have been developing, I hope, will give the assurance to those communities that it will be safe to open when that R rate is in a situation where we are confident that it will be safe to do so.

David Melding AC: Minister, do you agree with me that a coherent and ambitious tourism strategy requires, also, a partnership approach with the rest of the UK? And whilst what we can do in Wales is very, very important, it needs to be connected to some wider issue as well—you've already mentioned the furlough scheme. One hopes the shared prosperity fund, when that's operating, will be able to invest heavily in tourism. It's such a crucial sector in Wales and in other parts of the UK, and it's going to require sustained support over the next 18 months in all probability. Because even when we get to what, I hope, will be a much fuller tourist season next spring, there will be a lot of rebuilding to do. So, I think it's important we do what we can in Wales in terms of business rate relief, for instance, but we do need to be part of a wider UK-partnership approach, as well, especially on some of those potential big funding sources.
And here, I do believe that our marketing strategy can feed into a UK one as well, but I think that we've probably not done as much as we could have in the past, probably since the days of the Welsh Development Agency. I don't think we've had a world-class marketing strategy for Wales. I think that that's what we should aim for again, because Government is in a wonderful position to deliver a marketing strategy, particularly for tourism, because there is just market failure there, with so many more small providers who can't join together to fund a marketing strategy, but Government can do it. But we need, also, to feed into UK infrastructure. Foreign embassies, for instance, and trade missions are a key thing to be reminded of, because if we're promoting Wales for tourism, we're promoting it for wider business too.

Eluned Morgan AC: Thank you, David. Absolutely—I would say that we are very much connected to the UK tourism industry. I know that the Deputy Minister meets very regularly with his counterparts across the United Kingdom, and a lot of the guidance that is being developed, is being developed in concert with the rest of the UK, where possible. Because it doesn't make sense for us to perhaps have a separate protocol for how you use a buffet in Wales from how you would use a buffet in Scotland. So, all of those things are being discussed in detail.
We have been working with the representatives of—it's not just on a governmental side, but also on the industry side—. So, we have Welsh representatives on the VisitBritain board. The UK Tourism Industry Council are, of course, people who become involved in the weekly discussions that Dafydd Elis-Thomas, the Minister, has with the industry. So, I think that connection with the UK is actually extremely strong.
When you're talking about a marketing strategy, our marketing strategy, of course, at the moment is 'Visit Wales. Later', and, of course, at some point, we will be switching that when we feel it is safe to do so. But I do think that a huge amount of work has already been done in this space. We have about 1 million followers on Twitter in relation to Wales.com. I think a huge amount of work has been done already in terms of the branding of Wales. I think that's in a very good place now. So, it's how we promote those platforms to a wider audience and get the UK Government to be promoting on our behalf. Certainly, one of the things that we've been trying to emphasise within that new international strategy is giving the clear information to the UK Government in terms of what we want them to say on our behalf, and I think we're in a much better place with that now.

Caroline Jones AC: Thank you for your statement, Minister, and for the work you're continuing to do, and may we all pray for peace across the world.
My region's economy, like many parts of Wales, is heavily dependent on the tourism sector, a sector that has been decimated by the coronavirus pandemic. The majority of operators in my region are microbusinesses, and the loss of earnings has been catastrophic. Unless we move to allow the sector to operate soon, many of these businesses will not survive. Minister, the Welsh Government have made grants available until the end of June, and, on these grants of £10,000 or £25,000, will they be a one-off payment or will more support be offered if the sector is unable to operate in June, July and August?
While I accept that public safety must be of paramount importance and that the tourism sector will be unable to operate as it did before coronavirus, there are many ways to mitigate the disease and still have a tourist season, provided social distancing is maintained. Minister, what discussions have you had with the technical advisory cell about how tourism and leisure can operate safely during this pandemic?
Many holiday parks in my region consist of static caravans, which by law have to be 5m apart. These are self-contained, with their own kitchens and bathrooms. Minister, will you consider allowing these parks to open in the next couple of weeks? Measures can be taken to minimise risks, given that this sector makes 70 per cent of its revenue during June, July and August. Minister, do you agree that holiday parks should be allowed to open as soon as is possible?
And finally, Minister, with quarantine measures in place for all those travelling to the UK, it is unlikely that we will see many foreign tourists this year. But, on the other side of the coin, it is unlikely that UK residents will be enjoying foreign holidays either. So, what steps are you taking to ensure that, when it is safe to do so, my region, and the whole of Wales, reaps the benefits of the inevitable rise in staycations? Thank you.

Eluned Morgan AC: Thank you. I, first of all, would say that those microbusinesses, I hope, will have an opportunity to bid in the next economic resilience fund, and it is being specifically targeted at those in the next phase of the economic resilience fund. So, I do hope you'll encourage those people who have contacted you to take a look at that, and they can already assess whether they will be eligible, even though that hasn't formally been opened yet.
Also, in terms of guidance, as I say, we are very aware of the need to put some guidance in place so that it's absolutely safe for places like caravan parks to open when it's safe to do so. We, of course, will work very closely with the TAC organisation just to have a look at whether the containment of the virus is in a place where it would be safe to open in the next few weeks. That guidance is being developed. We would encourage those people who work on caravan sites or self-catering accommodation to take a look at that, but I've got to underline that this is all conditional on it being safe to do so and that R rate coming down.
In terms of foreign holidays, you're absolutely right. The vast, vast majority—I think it's about 80 per cent or 90 per cent—of people who come to Wales are actually visitors from the United Kingdom. So, of course, we'd always welcome foreign tourists when it's safe to do so, but it's clear that those visitors are less likely to come this year. I think you're absolutely right to underline the chances of there being more people who would want to undertake staycations.
I think the other things we've got to consider then, of course, are opportunities and being creative in terms of extending the season for those tourism operators, and how we extend that season so that we don't get that huge congregation on beaches and places like we've seen in England, which, of course, would not be a good situation either. So, all of this has got to be done very, very carefully and with great caution.

Vikki Howells AC: Minister, thank you for your statement today. I have some questions relating to the Welsh language element of your portfolio. Firstly, with regard to Welsh language education, I'm just wondering what discussions you might have had with the Minister for Education around the reopening of more provision for pupils who attend Welsh-medium schools, and also, the efforts to tackle digital exclusion there. I think, obviously there are issues across the board, but particularly for pupils who come from English-speaking families, there is that extra barrier. So I'd be keen to know what work you've done to try to overcome that.
My second and final question is around the announcement from the Coleg Cymraeg that it's extending its incentive scholarship scheme worth £1,500 over three years to include every student starting university in September 2020 who chooses to study at least 40 credits through the medium of Welsh. This is a really great initiative. What work is being done both with schools, with colleges and with our higher education institutions to raise awareness of this programme?

Eluned Morgan AC: Diolch yn fawr, Vikki. I have very regular meetings with the education Minister, and obviously have been very aware of the need to ensure that there are opportunities, in particular for those pupils who come from non-Welsh-speaking homes to be able to practice their Welsh, to be able to get their hands on resources that would be beneficial to them in terms of accessing materials that may be of use to them. The Hwb support is very, very extensive—what's available in terms of resources to help people is there. But of course that is not helpful, as you say, if there is a digital exclusion element, and that's why I know that the education Minister has put additional resources in specifically to target those children who perhaps previously were not able to access online resources. But I'm glad to see that that has happened.
Certainly, in terms of the Coleg Cymraeg Cenedlaethol, yes, I think that is a very constructive way of hopefully incentivising people to do more of their course through the medium of Welsh—not necessarily the entirety of their course, but we are certainly hoping that this is going to help, particularly in vocational training areas. Yes, there has been some publicity about this this week, so that awareness, I hope, has been raised, but there needs to be an effort now by the Coleg Cymraeg Cenedlaethol to target that at the students who would be most likely to benefit. Of course, all of this is much more difficult during lockdown—identifying people—but I think a lot of this work can be done online, and certainly most of the people who would benefit from that are people who spend half of their lives, I think, on their little mobile phones. So there is a very clear way to be able to get to them and spread that news.

Rhun ap Iorwerth AC: Thank you, Llywydd. Today, I jointly signed a letter to the First Minister with the Anglesey Tourism Association and the council outlining our concerns about the tourism sector. There are many businesses on their knees now, and quite simply we're asking for greater clarity from the Government in terms of its plans for the sector over the next few weeks and months.
This is how I see it: you can either decide that you need to keep the restrictions tight and extend the financial support to the sector, or your scientific advice will suggest that it is possible to allow some tourism, and then we can start to discuss a timetable for reducing that financial support, although long-term support will be required because of how much of the season has been lost already. But what you can't do is retain restrictions and not provide support. Would the Minister agree with that, and will she realise now that the sector and businesses already feel that it's the eleventh hour for them? Does she feel that we must have greater clarity from the Government as to what the plan is? Because businesses and prospective tourists need that now.

Eluned Morgan AC: Thank you very much, Rhun. We have made it clear that we will be giving those working in the sector three weeks' notice so that they do have an opportunity to prepare. Of course, we'll have to see whether the R rate will be in a position next week where we can provide them with more clarity on the possibilities for reopening in the future.
We are highly aware, of course, that the tapering of furlough is to commence in August, and if people can't access any kind of salary, wage or profit coming in, then it'll be impossible for them to pay their staff. We are aware of that date where a number of businesses will face collapse at that point. So we are highly aware of the situation and, of course, we will have to wait and see whether we're in a position next week to give greater clarity to the industry.

Angela Burns AC: Good afternoon, Llywydd. Good afternoon, Minister. I couldn't possibly talk about anything else apart from tourism, given the area that I represent. As we all know, the hospitality industry was probably the first one hit; it's been hit the hardest and will need to be hit the longest. My cry of—my plea to you is to adopt a one-size-does-not-fit-all strategy.
I've already heard some very welcome indications that you're going to look at some sectors, but I would like to see the Welsh Government use real imagination over this, because I've got so many different kinds of businesses—a business that has three yurts, which will, in total, have six visitors, and they will say to me, 'Okay, they all do share the same bathroom facilities. However, what is the difference between six people using that bathroom and a bunch of workers in the local Tesco all using that bathroom during the day?' So, it's about really being imaginative and really thinking it through, and not just adopting a standard cut-off point. I absolutely recognise that we must make sure that the R number does not spiral out of control, but if we're going to support these businesses going forward, we absolutely need to have that elasticity.
You also mentioned—one last point—the community consent. Now, this is an area that's really agonised an awful lot of people who've contacted me, because there is nothing out there about it and, again, they feel that they're being put into the hands of other people who may not be as well informed, who may be very parochial about their particular area and that there may be lots of different agendas being run. How are you going to define 'community consent'? Will those businesses be involved, because businesses on my patch, from the very big ones to the very smallest, do not feel involved with anything. They do not feel they're being communicated with, and they do not want to be blindsided by people being able to just put a blanket block on them from some sort of community element that would be unfair. As long as it's fair, above board and transparent, people can live with it. At the moment, they don't see that.

Eluned Morgan AC: Thank you, Angela. First of all, on the community consent, I do think that one thing that we need to avoid is to open up and to find that the communities, locally, are hostile to the people who are coming in. That would be the worst place to be, and so, we do need to develop that community consent. We speak very regularly to local authorities about the feelings within their communities and, of course, they have representatives within their communities. I think the other thing to underline is that these businesses don't work apart from their communities; they are a part of the community, and it is really important for them also to make their presence felt, for them to make their voices heard, because they are the community as well, and many, many people who work in these businesses are of the community. So, I think we've got to be really careful not to say that it's us and them and that it's the industry versus the community; they belong to each other and they are symbiotic. They are dependent on each other as well.
Just in terms of the accommodation, it is really difficult and it will be really difficult to police things unless it's straightforward. So, whilst I hear your pleas about being creative and imaginative, we've also got to work out how we can police the system and allow it to function, and so if we go away from shared facilities, it's very difficult to see where those lines would be drawn. So, whilst I hear you, I do think that we have to get something that is implementable and that we can police, in a way.

Joyce Watson AC: I also want to talk about tourism but first of all, I want to mention Sir Thomas Picton School. Two of my children went to Thomas Picton school, and were never, ever told, nothing ever came home to say about the name, the person behind the name, and there was certainly no education that informed either pupils, parents or the community about the person whose name that school bore. It doesn't bear that name anymore, thankfully.
But I want to move on to tourism, as I've said, and there's been a lot of talk here about when the R rate is right, tourism can open, and I fully support that. I fully support all the measures that the Government here and in Westminster have put in place to help those businesses stay alive. But the one thing that hasn't been mentioned here today is if you open up tourism and you allow people into a community, then, you can't not allow people to leave that community. So, once you open up tourism, you have, de facto then, removed the localism. There's no question about that; those two things will have to work together.
And I suppose my question in terms of the R rate is that—and it's a fear, so it might as well be voiced—we don't know where people are coming from, we don't know what the R rate is in the areas that they are currently residing in. So, what sort of checks and balances are we doing to both ensure people—? Because I want the community to come with us here; I want people to feel that they're safe, and there has to be some mechanism that reassures people that that is the case. But, more critically, it will be the end of the local lockdown that people are adhering to—there's absolutely no question about that in my mind—and how are we going to communicate that to the wider public?

Eluned Morgan AC: Thank you, Joyce. I think we probably recognise that, if we were to open the tourism sector, then it would be very difficult not to move away from the localism situation. Of course, people who will be travelling there or would be going from there, it would be very difficult to ask people to travel to somewhere and then not to move. It would be very, very difficult to police. So, I think we recognise that, which is why we need to take this very, very carefully and understand that that's what it would mean. Of course, we need to be aware, therefore, that the headroom in relation to R, once we open that, it means that we'd be in a very different situation in terms of opening up our communities more widely. This is not easy and we've got to get the balance right, and what's clear to me is that we need to get the buy-in, as I say, of that local community.

Delyth Jewell AC: Minister, in Plenary a month ago in response to Siân Gwenllian, you confirmed that you were aware of concerns that a proposed clause within the curriculum and assessment Bill could have a detrimental impact on the gains that have been made in terms of Welsh-medium education, and that you would look carefully at the situation. However, it doesn't appear that there's been any change in the Government's plans, and yesterday, Ceredigion County Council made a public statement urging, once again, the Government to secure changes to the Bill before it's published, for the benefit of developing Wales as a bilingual nation in line with all of our aspirations.
Minister, how is placing English on the face of the Bill, and forcing those children who want to have a Welsh-medium education to opt out, consistent with the Welsh Government's vision of creating a million Welsh speakers? Quite to the contrary, isn't it entirely contrary to the wording and the spirit of the Welsh Government's policy, which states clearly that Welsh-medium education is the most effective way of securing full bilingualism? Will you therefore commit to do everything within your power within the Cabinet to insist that the education department supports, rather than undermines, your language strategy?

Eluned Morgan AC: Thank you very much. Just to say that I have had a number of discussions with the Minister for Education on this issue, and I'd like to make it clear, I think, that as we are a bilingual nation, I think it makes a great deal of sense that we place Welsh and English on the face of the Bill. That's what you would expect in a bilingual nation. What is important is that there are opportunities and that it's possible for us to ensure that people are immersed in the Welsh language, as has traditionally happened in Wales, particularly up until the age of seven. Now, that will be possible through the Bill, and I am confident that we will be in that situation.

Darren Millar AC: Can I just ask you about the Welsh Mountain Zoo? We heard earlier on in an exchange with your ministerial colleague Ken Skates that zoos have never been required to close here in Wales and that they are allowed to open, but, obviously, with a 5-mile travel restriction, that's not going to be viable any time soon, until that restriction is lifted. I heard what you said in response to Joyce Watson, about the reopening of the tourism industry, and I would urge you to consider, even as a halfway step, allowing people to travel within neighbouring counties, even, as a means to opening some of these open-air attractions, which could be opened in a safe way whilst maintaining social distancing for even local visitors.
Can I also ask about the funding and resources made available to that zoo? It is the national zoo of Wales. We have a national library, we have a national theatre, we have national museums, all of which receive significant annual support from the Welsh Government, but our national zoo doesn't. Is that something that you can consider, providing some support on a more frequent and annual basis in the future, particularly given the fact that this is a very cherished national asset that is very important to the tourism economy in north Wales?

Eluned Morgan AC: Thank you very much, Darren, and thank you for championing the cause of the Welsh Mountain Zoo once again. Just to confirm that it is correct that zoos have not, in Wales, been required to close, but, as you said, it's probably not commercially viable for them to do so whilst localism and that local approach to fighting coronavirus is in place. So, obviously, we'll have to wait to see what happens in the near future in terms of the opportunities for people to travel further distances, and all of that will depend on where the R rate is. But just to confirm that the Welsh Mountain Zoo has had access to significant funding from the Welsh Government and that the Welsh Government has been far more generous in its support to zoos than they have been in England. I think it probably is worth underlining that.
These are great resources for us. It's a great visitor attraction in north Wales, and certainly we have stood by them during this time, but obviously we understand the pressure that they're under and the incredible amount of money that it takes to feed animals. That cost does not go away, and one of the reasons why we have been so keen to support them, of course, is due to the animal welfare issues that we are very concerned about.

Lynne Neagle AC: Minister, I have been running an essay competition for children in the constituency during lockdown, entitled, 'My COVID superhero is...'. It has been inspirational and uplifting, but it has also been a really powerful way for me to hear the voices of children in my constituency. It has been very well supported by Ysgol Gyfun Gwynllyw, and I do support them for that, but I would like to associate myself with the remarks that Vikki Howells made about the difficulties being faced by families where a young person is in Welsh-medium education but the parents don't have a knowledge of Welsh. One of those young people has nominated her father as her superhero, because he has been helping her with her Welsh, and she tells me that it has been hard for him—her name is Nina—'because he has to translate my work to find out what to do to help me, and I have to help him to make sure it is correct as he translates it.' Now, all of us that are educating our children at home are facing massive challenges, but there are very real challenges if you haven't got an understanding of the language in which you're trying to help your child. Minister, what more can you do, in conjunction with the education Minister, to ensure that the support is there, so that all our young people can enjoy the educational opportunities we want them to have? Thank you.

Eluned Morgan AC: Diolch yn fawr, Lynne. I think that's a wonderful initiative—to undertake a superheroes game or challenge during this time, and it's great to hear that. And it's absolutely right that there are people from non-Welsh-speaking homes who are really keen to make sure that they keep up their Welsh during this time. And certainly, when the education Minister made her statement on 'stay safe, stay learning', she made an absolute commitment then to ensuring that children from English-speaking homes who attended Welsh-speaking schools should have the same entitlement to support. And we've made sure that there are advice and links and support available, on Hwb in particular, but also we've asked those headteachers in those schools—those Welsh-language schools—to make sure that they publish guidance for headteachers and practitioners. And I know that that has happened because my own children have received some of that guidance. So, that guidance is in place already, pointing to resources. But I'd also encourage them to go beyond just the traditional academic routes, to get involved in activities such as the Urdd. A lot of their work is being done online now; you've heard that they had the Eisteddfod online, the Eisteddfod T, where thousands—7,000 children—took part. And there are other resources on S4C and other places. So, there are resources out there, but I would ask them to contact their headteachers, who have been given very clear advice on where they can get that support from.

Mohammad Asghar (Oscar) AC: Thank you, Minister, for the statement you have given earlier, and I'm very pleased regarding the George Floyd affairs in America—very sad. I would rather say that all life matters—there is no superiority by anyone, any human being, to another one because of the race relation or caste or ethnicity. I admire your feeling on that, and you have written to Americans—wonderful. I think the whole world will take this lesson and make sure everybody is equal and everybody has equal rights as a citizen in all parts of the world.
Minister, my question to you—one or two: what assurance can you provide to tourist operators in Wales that their businesses will reopen in the very near future, to allow them to benefit from what remains of the summer season of 2020? And the second one is: all these sporting events, whether it's cricket, rugby, football, or the Olympics next year, our sportsmen and women do need to get training, and training vigorously, to make sure they get to certain standards. So, what are you doing with the sporting side of our national heroes to make sure they do not lose out when the events come, and they do not lose out because of this COVID-19 lockdown in their houses? So, is there any plan for them, to make sure that they are continuously engaged with their professional activities in Wales? Thank you.

Eluned Morgan AC: Thank you, Mohammad. And just to underline the point that we will reopen our tourism sector when it's safe to do so. We've made clear our traffic lights system, where what we'll be looking at first of all is the signal that accommodation without shared facilities will be the first to open. And we are just preparing the ground for that to be possible now. But we will not move until the communities are happy for us to do so, and also when the health situation is in the right place for us to do so.
On the sporting events, just to make clear that there are many outdoor sports that are able to be undertaken already. But certainly, professional sportspeople have been able to start back—people like footballers; they have been able because that is a job for them. But in the next review, we will be considering whether it will be possible for elite sports athletes to be able to undertake training. And so that is something that we are looking at, to see if it will be possible to review that in the next period.

John Griffiths AC: Minister, one thing that we've seen through COVID-19 is many people becoming more physically active. I think we've all seen them walking and jogging and cycling around where we live. But some people are becoming less physically active, perhaps because the usual infrastructure that facilitates their exercise, such as gyms, is not available. This seems to mirror health inequalities—people who have better health and better circumstances tend to be exercising more and vice versa for those in more deprived circumstances. And I was just wondering, as we build back better, as we say, whether you'll be looking at the public health aspect of sport and exercise to make much closer links than we've seen up to now, recognising the physical and mental health importance of physical activity and sport.

Eluned Morgan AC: Diolch yn fawr, John. Certainly, we are very aware that a lot of people seem to be spending a lot more time outdoors, particularly in the lovely weather that we've had. But you're absolutely right to underline the fact that what we've got todo is to encourage those people, in particular from deprived areas, that perhaps don't usually undertake sporting activities, to really start to take those up. And we, of course, have always been very keen to encourage that. And one of the things we've done, of course, is to repurpose the sports fund to make an £8 million fund available so that those sports facilities that would have gone under, had we not stepped in, will still be there at the other end of this crisis. So, I think, in terms of building back better, it's certainly important for us to make sure that those facilities are there in place so that that opportunity to build back better will be there, because without those sports facilities, it would be much more difficult for us to attain that.

I thank the Minister.

6. Legislative Consent Motion on the Corporate Insolvency and Governance Bill

The next item is the legislative consent motion on the Corporate Insolvency and Governance Bill. I call on the Minister for Housing and Local Government to move the motion—Julie James.

Motion NDM7330 Julie James
To propose that the Senedd, in accordance with Standing Order 29.6 agrees that provisions in the Corporate Insolvency and Governance Bill in so far as they fall within the legislative competence of the Senedd, should be considered by the UK Parliament.

Motion moved.

Julie James AC: Diolch, Llywydd. I welcome this opportunity to explain the background to this legislative consent motion. The Secretary of State for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy introduced the UK Government's Corporate Insolvency and Governance Bill on 20 May, 2020. The purpose of the Bill is twofold: some provisions are specifically aimed at putting in place temporary emergency measures to help companies deal with the COVID-19 pandemic by amending company and insolvency law, introducing, for example, provisions to allow companies and similar bodies temporary flexibility to hold an annual general meeting and other general meetings electronically, by telephone or virtually, for the period between 26 March 2020 and 30 September 2020.
The remaining provisions bring forward insolvency law reforms, which the UK Government has been developing and consulting on over the lastfew years. Again, thesemeasures are regarded as being particularly helpful to address issues raised by the COVID-19 pandemic. In particular, the Bill introduces a new moratorium into the Insolvency Act 1986, which will apply to all companies. In certain circumstances, a company will be able to apply for a moratorium, which is intended to allow a company in financial distress a breathing space to explore its rescue and restructuring options free from creditor action.
During the moratorium period, certain benefits and restrictions will apply. For example, no legal action will be able to be taken or continued against a company without leave of the court. Companies that are subject to a moratorium will remain under the control of their directors, but will also be overseen by a monitor, a licence insolvency practitioner, who is an officer of the court.
As I mentioned, the Bill will apply to all UK companies. Insolvency generally is a reserved matter and so the provisions would apply across the UK. And understandably perhaps, in view of the COVID-19 situation, the Bill is being fast-tracked through the UK Parliament. Royal Assent is expected by the end of June.
On 5 May my officials were contacted by officials from the Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy Department, as it became apparent that the Bill provisions impacted on existing insolvency provisions in housing legislation, which are designed to help if a registered social landlord should get into financial difficulties. These provisions, contained in the Housing Act 1996, also include for a moratorium period, which provides time for the Welsh Ministers, as regulator of social housing, to work with the RSL to resolve issues, primarily to find a solution that enables the social housing assets to be retained in the regulated social housing sector, in turn protecting tenants. Regretfully, the fast-tracking of the Bill has meant that the usual committee scrutiny of the legislative consent memorandum has not been possible, and so this debate has been extended to provide Members with the opportunity for their views to be heard.
A very small number of RSLs in Wales are registered companies, and so the Bill's moratorium provisions will apply to them. The moratorium provisions will not, however, apply to other forms of RSL, such as registered societies or charitable incorporated organisations. This results in different insolvency provisions for different types of RSLs in Wales and a clear potential for the proposed new insolvency moratorium to conflict with the existing arrangements, which apply to all forms of RSL in Wales.
In the time available, it has not been possible to fully assess the implications of the new provisions, given the extensive insolvency powers that already exist. For that reason, I agree that officials should seek provisions in the Bill to enable the Welsh Ministers to be able to apply, disapply or modify the provisions by secondary legislation, in order to ensure that the provisions in the Bill relating to the moratorium operate in a way that is complementary to the existing RSL insolvency provisions in Wales, and maintain the Welsh Ministers' existing powers and functions to deal with the RSL insolvencies, as set out in the Housing Act 1996, to achieve the desired outcomes of that insolvency regime—the main one being the protection of social housing stock and assets and the protection of tenants—and to ensure that the provisions within the Bill relating to the moratorium operate, in so far as they can, in a way that is consistent for all forms of RSL in Wales.
The Bill, as introduced, has therefore been drafted to take account of the policy intentions, where that was possible, and now makes various specific provisions for the Welsh Ministers. There are reasonable legal arguments that the provisions for the Welsh Ministers are within the legislative competence of the Senedd, and I therefore believe that the legislative consent of the Senedd should be sought. However, whilst I believe the provisions fall within the legislative competence of the Senedd, I am content that they should be made in the UK Government Bill for reasons of expedience, in view of the subject matter.
I therefore move the motion and ask the Senedd to approve this legislative consent motion. Diolch.

David Melding AC: I think this is a reasonable approach to take. It's important that flexibility is maintained through a moratorium period, can be given to RSLs that are in financial difficulty—obviously, as the Minister has just explained, that was something available, and is available, indeed, under current housing legislation—and, for Welsh Ministers to gain powers to ensure that there is an appropriate fit and that there isn't a legal contradiction generated, we think the approach the Minister has outlined is a reasonable one. Above all, we need to protect the social housing asset in Wales, and, as the Minister said, thereby protect the interests of tenants. So, I would urge that Members support the LCM.

I call now the Chair of the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee, Mick Antoniw. Just wait for the microphone to be turned on. Try again, Mick. No, we have a problem with your sound. Can we just pause for a second while somebody provides some advice?

Mick Antoniw AC: I think that's fixed now, Llywydd.

Yes, you've fixed it, Mick.

Mick Antoniw AC: Thank you. Llywydd, the committee, of course, as the Minister has explained, has not had the opportunity to scrutinise this particular memorandum. But, as Chair of the committee, there are a number of comments that I think it is important that I do make, because this is a serious piece of legislation that does impact on rights, albeit predominantly corporate rights, but also, to some extent, individual rights.
So, the legislation is brought within the context of the economic and financial pressures, which are very much unique, in these extraordinary circumstances. So, the normal fiscal rules and obligations, if applied strictly, could lead to many companies collapsing. So, the purpose of the Bill is to create a space for any company in financial difficulty—a breathing space, as it is described—by removing the impact of creditor action, that is, steps that a company or individual can take to enforce debts and financial obligations.
So, the Bill does allow a company an important moratorium of up to 40 days. And, in addition, it restricts the capacity for legal actions—that is, essentially, enforcement. There have rightly been identified issues relating to registered social landlords in the Bill that conflict with aspects of Welsh Government policy. A key objective outlined by the Welsh Government is to maintain existing powers and responsibilities as set out in the Housing Act 1996, which the Minister referred to, and to ensure there are no negative consequences for registered social landlords.
The Bill makes moratorium provision for registered social landlords in difficulty using a draft affirmative procedure, but negative resolution procedure for the first six months. In addition, the duty in the Bill to consult on any regulations during the first six weeks will also not apply.
Now, as a committee, we will want to review in due course the operation of this Bill and the way in which the powers it provides have been used. Thank you, Llywydd.

Diolch. The Minister to respond.

Julie James AC: Just to thank the two Members for their comments, and we've taken them on board, and to urge people to support the legislative consent motion. Diolch, Llywydd.

The proposal, then, is to agree the motion. Does any Member object? I'm seeing no objections to the motion and therefore it's agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

Motion agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

7. Motion to annul The Local Government (Coronavirus) (Postponement of Elections) (Wales) Regulations 2020

The next item is the motion to annul the Local Government (Coronavirus) (Postponement of Elections) (Wales) Regulations 2020. I call on Suzy Davies to propose this motion. Suzy.

Motion NDM7329 Suzy Davies
To propose that the Senedd in accordance with Standing Order 27.2:
Agrees that The Local Government (Coronavirus) (Postponement of Elections) (Wales) Regulations 2020, laid before the Assembly on 29 April 2020, be annulled.

Motion moved.

Suzy Davies AC: Diolch, Llywydd, and I move the motion. Thank you, everyone, for staying to listen to this. I just want to begin by making two things plain. The first is that these regulations protect various officers from liability for non-compliance with the usual legal requirements that govern the calling and conduct of by-elections. Those usual requirements were suspended by the Coronavirus Act 2020. These regulations now seek to extend that period of suspension and protection, and so they are important.
The second point I want to make is that there are similar regulations that apply in England that extend the period of suspension even further. That's not important, partly because my constituents in the Ogmore valley and central Swansea don't live in England, and partly because there isn't a Senedd election in England in May.
Now, there will be common criticism that applies to both these sets of regulations, but it's up to Members of Parliament to challenge those made for England. I would like this Welsh Parliament to fully understand these Welsh regulations, the purpose of postponing by-elections for a year or so, and then to ask whether we as the legislature think that that's a suitable way to deal with deferring local democracy.
Now, in my region, there are two casual vacancies: one in Castle ward, due to the sad death of the very well-respected councillor, Sybil Crouch; and one in Nantymoel, which is due to the imprisonment in early March of the less well-respected councillor, David Owen. The provisions of the Coronavirus Act 2020 came into force, disapplying sections 39 and 63 of the Representation of the People Act 1983 for the period 15 March to 24 April 2020. So, progress on those two by-elections was paused.
Those provisions ordinarily require a returning officer to order an election, fix a date and issue the necessary notices, and they render various officials liable to summary conviction for non-compliance with those requirements. So, protection for those officers against liability for non-compliance, which ran out on 24 April, did need repairing, and it's absolutely right that Welsh Government officials wanted to bring in new regulations swiftly. So, they still left officials vulnerable for a good 10 days, and managed to break the 21-day rule in laying statutory instruments again in the process of doing that, but, let's be generous, it was a very, very busy time; nobody got hurt.
But I've got to say that the instrument is full of errors: there are misreferences to this being an Order, not regulations; there are wrong dates in it; there are wrong sections referred to; there are references to provisions of the corona Act being limited to two years, without noting that these enabling powers—sorry, the powers for making these regulations—are an exception to that rule; there's reference to a Royal Assent, which is completely meaningless in this particular context. So, as a piece of law, regardless of intention, it is a mess and, on these grounds alone, perhaps we should be arguing that they should be annulled and a new set laid immediately—preferably ones that make sense.
But the main reason I'm asking you to consider annulling these regulations is that they're not proportionate. Law should always be proportionate, but that principle was confirmed, even though it needed no confirmation, in other corona regulations made just a few days later. So, that principle was definitely in the Government's legislative mind. So, I'd like to hear from Government what is proportionate about effectively postponing any by-elections from March this year to between February and April next year—what is proportionate about denying my constituents the opportunity for local representation for almost a year, or even longer, without public consultation? And can we remember that not all wards are multi-member wards? How were these dates reached, when Welsh Government only spoke to a few people involved in electoral law and co-ordination? Because their convenience does not outweigh the views of this Senedd and the people we represent. And I don't think it's a response to say that:
'Further views of stakeholders will be sought retrospectively on supplementary provisions'
without saying who or what you have in mind.
So, I'm asking this Senedd to think very carefully of its constituents and the democracy of which they're being deprived by these regulations without just cause and to annul these badly drafted and unnecessarily oppressive regulations. Let's ask the Government to lay new ones without the mistakes, with shorter periods of postponement, and accompanied by an explanatory memorandum that offers an explanation of why we need this length of postponement, and, if needed, to come back with another set later, and maybe even another set. But I'm just asking you to be sure that you're content to leave your constituents without representation for so long. Thank you.

I call on the Chair of the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee, Mick Antoniw.

Mick Antoniw AC: Thank you, Llywydd. Am I clear to speak?

Yes, I can hear you. Carry on.

Mick Antoniw AC: Diolch, Llywydd. The Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee did consider these regulations on 18 May. In our report laid before the Senedd, which was on the same day, we raised one technical reporting point and three merits points, which we draw to the attention of the Senedd.
The technical reporting point related to the clarity of the effect of the regulations. The regulations are made using powers under sections 67 and 68 of the Coronavirus Act 2020. Under the regulations, a 'relevant election' means:
'An election to fill a casual vacancy for a county, county borough council or a community councillor in Wales'.
The relevant period is the period beginning on 16 March 2020 and ending on 31 January 2021. Now, it was not immediately clear whether a relevant election would be subject to the postponement provisions in the circumstances where the ordinary statutory time frame for holding such an election were to fall partly within the relevant period and partly after it. At our meeting, we considered the Welsh Government's response to this point and we were content with the explanation provided to us that, if the date fixed by the returning officer for a poll falls within the relevant period, then the poll will be postponed, and, if the polling date falls outside the relevant period, it will not be postponed.
We also noted the Welsh Government is considering whether any further supplementary provision needs to be made under section 68 of the 2020 Act in connection with the regulations. As a member of the LJC committee, Suzy Davies did raise concerns about the regulations during our meeting 18 May, which were noted on the public record.

Caroline Jones AC: My group will not be supporting the motion to annul brought forward by Suzy Davies today. Whilst all of us hold democracy close to our hearts and will do all that we can to uphold democratic principles, we have to consider the wider context. Millions of people globally have been infected with a virus that has cost many lives and is spread by face-to-face contact. Our country is in lockdown. Lives are on hold and many people have lost their jobs and businesses have collapsed, and, for a lot of people in Wales, the future is uncertain. Measures taken have been necessary to stop the exponential spread of coronavirus. How, then, can we hold by-elections? And the answer is that we cannot in a safe or meaningful way. Elections in many cases require face-to-face discussions, public meetings, often necessary to make informed choices. Electronic voting alienates a percentage of the public, who are living in poverty and cannot afford computers, as well as those unable to use the equipment. Therefore, in just these two examples, people are not treated equally and may be unable to vote through this inequality. So, unfortunately, my group believes that elections at this moment in time should be suspended, and we will vote against this motion.

I call on the Minister for Housing and Local Government, Julie James.

Julie James AC: Diolch, Llywydd. Elections are essential to our democracy and anything that impacts them should indeed be taken seriously, and so I'm very happy to have been able to hear the views of colleagues in the Chamber today. These regulations do two very important things: they postpone any by-elections that would have been held between March this year and January next year, and they protect those who organise our elections from criminal prosecution as a result of the necessary actions that they have needed to take to protect both the public and their staff. This means that any by-elections that arise between 16 March 2020 and 31 January 2021 due to a casual vacancy will be held between 1 February 2021 and 16 April 2021. The exact date of the election will be determined by the appropriate returning officer. By disapplying sections 39 and 63 of the Representation of the People Act 1983, we've also ensured that the actions or omissions of returning officers in relation to a poll that was due to be held but was postponed cannot result in criminal prosecution.
These regulations were made using the negative procedure, as that is what the Coronavirus Act 2020 requires. Section 67 provides the power to the Welsh Ministers to make the regulations and section 67(7) specifies the procedure that applies. It was also necessary to disapply the 21-day convention, as the Act only gave returning officers indemnity for the period of 15 March to 24 April. By disapplying the 21-day convention, it allows us to bring the regulations into force by 5 May, avoiding any unnecessary gap where returning officers could be liable for acting in the public interest.
At the time of producing these regulations, there was a great deal of concern from the electoral community about the safety of holding elections. On 18 March, both my UK counterpart and I wrote to the electoral community to give our full support to returning officers who needed to suspend elections before the Coronavirus Act 2020 came into force.
I do not take the postponement of elections lightly; these regulations have been necessary due to the unprecedented health emergency we're currently living through. It would be impossible to hold fair and open by-elections while there are significant health risks to the population. We would risk disenfranchising those in at-risk groups and be risking the health of voters, the candidates, the campaigners and the electoral staff. These regulations allow returning officers to choose the most appropriate date to hold a postponed election between 1 February 2021 and 16 April 2021. This period allows for a sufficient time to have passed for us to have a better understanding of the present public health emergency, and plan accordingly with the electoral community and within the existing legislative framework.
This is in advance of 6 May 2021, when the current police and crime commissionerand Senedd elections are due to take place. The Senedd and PCC elections being held on the same day introduces considerable complexity into arrangements, as they will be involved with two different franchises and voting systems. It would not be desirable to add postponed local by-elections to those complex arrangements, and adding the dates of February to 16 April when a by-election must be held is therefore necessary.
The UK Government is requiring postponed by-elections to be held on this date, but because of the complexities involved that I have just set out, this was not appropriate for Wales, and so our by-elections will be held earlier. Allowing returning officers to set the date allows them to use their expertise to take into account local factors to arrange the most appropriate date, and due to the urgency with which these regulations are needed, some of the technical detail of how this postponement will be managed has been left to a later set of regulations.
I wrote to the electoral community on 5 May setting out the reasoning behind the current regulations and what would be covered in the second set. These will include a number of issues, such as previously cast postal ballots, expenses and compensation for the suspended polls.
I continue to work very closely with the electoral community and other UK administrations on managing these suspended polls and ensuring elections can be held safely and fairly. Diolch, Llywydd.

Suzy Davies to reply to the debate.

Suzy Davies AC: Diolch, Llywydd. Can I just thank Caroline Jones and the Minister for responding to that, and particularly to the Minister for the reasons why elections won't be postponed until May? But, that's actually not part of what I'm arguing for anyway, but I'm grateful for the update.
Regrettably, though, both of you have missed the point that I was trying to make, which is not about introducing by-elections imminently or any sooner. I'm asking this legislature to be sure that the Government is making it plain to us about why they're delaying it arbitrarily, it seems to me, until February. There is no opportunity to introduce by-elections any more quickly than that, even if coronavirus were to end tomorrow, which, obviously, it's not going to be doing that. But, we are delaying something here for the best part of a year without any process at all being available to us to shorten that period, should it turn out to be the situation that earlier by-elections would be possible. So, just to reinforce that point: I'm not asking for earlier ones, I'm asking for Government explanations of why we have to wait a year from now, when we've had no consultation and no explanation as to how that particular period of time was reached. But, thank you, everybody.

The proposal is to agree the motion. Does any Member object? Yes, I can see objections and therefore we will defer the voting on this motion until voting time.

Voting deferred until voting time.

8. Plaid Cymru Debate: The Economy and COVID-19

The following amendments have been selected: amendment 1 in the name of Rebecca Evans, amendments 2, 3, 4 and 5 in the name of Darren Millar, and amendment 6 in the name of Neil McEvoy. If amendment 1 is agreed amendments 2, 3, 4 and 5 will be deselected.

And that brings us to our next item, which is the Plaid Cymru debate on the economy and COVID-19, and I call on Helen Mary Jones to move the motion. Helen Mary Jones.

Motion NDM7331 Siân Gwenllian
To propose that the Senedd:
Calls on the Welsh Government to:
a) establish an employment guarantee scheme for young people suffering unemployment as a result of Covid-19;
b) establish a job reskilling and retraining scheme designed to support those needing to find alternative employment following the crisis;
c) convene a citizen's assembly to discuss how Wales should 'Build Back Better' following the experience of the crisis; and
d) establish a multi-billion 'All Wales Renewal Fund' to finance the rebuilding of our country.

Motion moved.

Helen Mary Jones AC: Diolch yn fawr, Llywydd, and I'm very pleased and privileged to be able to move the motion tabled in the name of Siân Gwenllian, and commend it to the Senedd.
It has become almost a cliché to talk about the fact that we are living in unprecedented times, and indeed we are. The comparison is sometimes made with world war two, but when our parents and grandparents were fighting that war they could see their enemy, they knew who it was, they knew what the fighting was about, and they could be with one another. We can't do that, of course.
We've known from the beginning that COVID-19 posed a grave risk to lives, but also to livelihoods. And as the immediate risk to health recedes somewhat, though we have much to do and a long way to go, the focus is increasingly now around people's concerns about our economy and about our livelihoods. We've also heard much talk about building back better, but there's less clarity about what that means. We know that for many in Wales and across the world, indeed, our pre-COVID economy was not delivering. And these fellow citizens, of course, are often those who have been the worst impacted by the crisis: people from black and ethnic minority communities; women; lone parents and disabled people. One third of our children in Wales before the crisis were living in poverty, and we must not go back to that normal. This is an opportunity to reset; to build an economy that works for everyone; that creates wealth to pay for the world-class public services our nation needs; that accelerates our road to decarbonisation, and leaves a better world for future generations. We believe that we need a broad debate about how that will be achieved, and my colleague Delyth Jewell will say more about the need for a citizens assembly to drive that work forward and to help us chart the way ahead. And in that context, we must reject the Conservative amendment 4. Although we welcome the opportunity for more cross-party working, and indeed the Welsh Government has been prepared to do that, we need to go further than that. The answers to our crisis are not all in this Chamber held by one party or more.
Now, in parallel to that longer term debate, we will need an immediate response, and the bulk of the motion before us today suggests a way forward. We're calling for an employment guarantee scheme for all young people. We know how hard they've already been hit in this crisis in terms of job losses, and we also know that if young people are out of work for more than six months at this stage of their life, it's likely to have a long-term impact on their careers. Many never catch up and are even poorer as pensioners as a result of missing out on work at this crucial time. Of course, there are existing Welsh Government schemes on which we can build, but we need to be much more ambitious, and we need a comprehensive plan, and we need it quickly. Instead of leaving our young people to rot on the dole, let's use their energy, their passion and their commitment to support things needed for the immediate recovery. For example, we could send graduates into our schools to support teachers to help our children catch up with the learning that they've lost. We could enable our young people to support our care sector, which will be under severe pressure for a long while to come, and we could pay them properly to do so. And we could create an army of skilled young people to retrofit our homes, beginning with social housing, with the insulation and with microrenewables, tackling climate change and poverty at the same time. And we will need a massive national programme to enable workers to train and reskill.

Helen Mary Jones AC: We heard evidence on the economy committee a few days ago that our economy will never be the same. Some jobs will never return, and some jobs will not return in the same way. We can use this as a positive opportunity to refocus. We could look at the businesses that we have that can be reskilled and repurposed. If our aerospace industry doesn't recover quickly enough, could we use some of those skills and some of those technologies to build renewable energy projects, for example?
And of course, there are Welsh Government programmes that we can build on. But, we will again need to be more ambitious, and we will need wider and more radical action. Perhaps, for example, we could give individual citizens a cash sum of £5,000 and enable them to choose, with that funding, how they choose to reskill themselves for a new economy that it's impossible to chart at the moment.
Of course, none of this is entirely new, and it accords with a lot of what others are saying. The Future Generations Commissioner for Wales has been saying the same things. We saw the new body Restart Wales putting forward some similar proposals yesterday. And, of course, the Trades Union Congress at the UK level and in Scotland and here in Wales is saying similar things.
Now, Llywydd, this of course will have to be paid for. As we say in Welsh, 'Diwedd y gân yw'r geiniog'. At the end of every song, there's the penny to pay. There are three areas that I want to briefly touch on here. The first is to return to the question of Barnett, and I was able to touch on this in questions to the economy Minister earlier. Research from the Centre for Towns shows that, of the 20 worst affected communities in England and Wales, 10 of those communities are going to be in Wales. I would suggest to this virtual Chamber that that doesn't say very much for the UK-wide solidarity that we often our First Minister speak about. It doesn't appear to have served us terribly well so far, and we can tell that to my constituents in Llanelli and people across south and north-east Wales.
But, be that as it may, we know that the formula was never fair. We know that it's never served us well. And in terms of bringing resources from the UK Government into our response to this crisis, it is imperative that the formula by which those resources come is now based on need and not on historical numbers and not on a simple formula. We really need to make that case again, and in this context—those 20 towns, with 10 of the worst affected in Wales, and much other evidence that shows how difficult it will be for our economy to recover or, as I would argue, to transform—those resources will be needed.
But I'm not sanguine, Llywydd. We have asked this of Governments of the UK of many colours over many years, and we've always got the same answer. So, what are the other options? Well, in the paper that we've produced to support this debate, we are advocating strongly once again the need for borrowing, and I know that this is something that the Welsh Government supports. It has never been cheaper to borrow to invest. All economists would tell us that this is going to be the case for many years to come.
So, we make the case for a £20 billion bond to be repaid over 30 years, and the repayment of that is affordable. I won't detain the Senedd this afternoon, but the paper is published—people can look at the evidence there. It is affordable, and that is the scale of investment that we will need because the scale of the challenge that we face is so enormous. I might ask, perhaps, Conservative colleagues in this Chamber to use what influence they may have with the UK Government to allow Welsh Government to borrow on this scale. It is essential. We recovered from the last crisis on this scale after the second world war by borrowing and investing.
Now, there's another question to be asked, and that is: is it time to have a grown-up conversation about tax? It is certainly true to say that we cannot hope to have Scandinavian-style public services and a United States of America-style taxation system. I'm not necessarily talking here about income tax, for example. We might look at wealth taxes. We might look at property taxes. That, of course, is for the longer term. But I do believe, Llywydd, that we have, through this crisis, overcome the decades-old Thatcherite idea that public spending is a bad thing. You will not find, I think, many people across the UK who are not glad for the scale of investment that has gone into protecting our economy and our public services, and now perhaps is the time to have those discussions.
I will refer briefly now, if I may, Llywydd, to the amendments. We can't accept the Government amendment. There is a slight sense in it of, 'This is fine, we've got it, it's okay.' Well, they can't have. Nobody has. We need more ideas. We need to think differently. We welcome much, of course, of what is set out in the Government amendment. We welcome the work that the Counsel General is doing. I'm not entirely sure why he's seeking the advice of Gordon Brown, who, for the best part of a decade as Chancellor and then as Prime Minister, refused to reform the Barnett formula, which would have been very helpful to us. But be that as it may, this isn't a time for party political points. We welcome the consultation through the social partnership, but that isn't enough in itself, which again is why we're advocating for a citizen's assembly, and I'm a bit disappointed the Government hasn't seen fit. We need more urgency and ambition.
Very briefly, to the Conservative amendments, we can't accept amendment 2. While apprenticeships will be important, they will not be sufficient. We are happy to accept amendment 3 as a useful addition, and I've explained our position, of course, about amendment 4. Amendment 5, to us, lacks ambition and scope. Now, with regard to amendment 6, we are able to support some elements of what the Member is suggesting, but I think it would be too optimistic to think, for example, that the food and drink industry alone will be able to lead us out of this mess. So, we will abstain on that amendment.
To draw my remarks to a close, Llywydd, this is a time to work together. This is a time for ambition. This is an opportunity, as I've heard the Minister say, to build, I think, not just a fairer, greener economy but a fair, green economy, and for that to happen we need to be taking action now while we look for the longer way ahead. I commend our motion with the one amendment to the Senedd.

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Ann Jones) took the Chair.

Thank you. I have selected the six amendments to this motion. If amendment 1 is agreed, amendments 2, 3, 4 and 5 will be deselected. Can I call on the Minister for Economy, Transport and North Wales to move formally amendment 1, tabled in the name of Rebecca Evans?

Amendment 1—Rebecca Evans
Delete all and replace with:
To propose that the Senedd:
1. Notes the package of employability support currently available through the Welsh Government including the highly regarded Jobs Growth Wales scheme which has supported more than 19,000 young people into good quality work and ReAct which for more than a decade has helped individuals retrain and find new employment.
2. Notes the Welsh Government's £500m Economic Resilience Fund which is currently helping thousands of small and medium sized businesses in Wales stay afloat and keep individuals in employment and which will in future support recovery.
3. Notes the expert work being coordinated by the Counsel General across Welsh Government on recovery planning including work by the Minister for Economy to identify further skills interventions which can support effective retraining in the coming months and the recovery phase.
4. Welcomes the constructive discussions the Minister for Economy has had with all parties about how we emerge from Coronavirus with the best possible prospects for young people.
5. Recognises the need to work in social partnership with trade unions and business to Build Back Better for the future.
6. Recognises that the Welsh Government has dedicated close to £2.5bn to its Covid-19 response since March 2020, further notes the scale of the economic crisis facing the whole of the United Kingdom and calls on the UK Government to develop a significant economic stimulus package that can support the Welsh Government’s work towards a green and just recovery.

Amendment 1 moved.

Ken Skates AC: Formally.

Thank you. I now call on Mohammad Asghar to move amendments 2, 3, 4 and 5, tabled in the name of Darren Millar. Mohammad.

Amendment 2—Darren Millar
In sub-point (a), delete 'employment' and replace with 'apprenticeship'.

Amendment 3—Darren Millar
Insert at end of sub-point (b):
'and introduce skills retention and development programmes as soon as practical in the most at risk sectors to ensure no loss of capability and the opportunity to upskill the local workforce during this period of reduced activity.'

Amendment 4—Darren Millar
In sub-point (c), delete 'citizen’s assembly' and replace with 'cross party taskforce'.

Amendment 5—Darren Millar
Delete sub-point (d) and replace with:
'establish a Covid Community Recovery Fund to support those towns and communities whose economies are hardest hit by the pandemic.'

Amendments 2, 3, 4 and 5 moved.

Mohammad Asghar (Oscar) AC: Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. I move the amendments tabled in the name of my colleague Darren Millar.
Having a skilled workforce in Wales is key for economic recovery, particularly since Wales already has a significant skills gap. Skills shortages cost Welsh businesses some £350 million in 2018 according to an Open University report. As well as the economic cost, many people in Wales are forced to cope with the personal cost of being stuck in low-skilled traps involving a depressing cycle of low skills, low wages and low productivity.
Apprenticeships and skills provision has been seriously affected by the coronavirus outbreak in our part of the world. Although apprenticeships working in health and social care have been busy on the front line responding to the pandemic, large areas of the economy have been mothballed and many people are missing work. Because of the stay-at-home order, learning has moved online. As well as having an impact on apprentices, this has also had an effect on training providers and their subcontractors.
We all recognise the impact of coronavirus on the Welsh economy and its workforce has the potential to be devastating. Wales has a higher proportion of workers employed in industries most affected by lockdown measures compared to England and Northern Ireland. The Learning and Work Institute Cymru forecasts that if just one in four of these workers lost their job it would result in unemployment in Wales increasing to a higher level than was seen during the last recession. Young people, women and those with the lowest qualification levels are most likely to face losing their jobs.
Presiding Officer, the Bevan Foundation found that rural Wales and the south Wales Valleys are experiencing a much higher proportion of business closure than the United Kingdom as a whole. Helen Mary earlier mentioned that 10 of the worst parts of the United Kingdom economically are in south Wales, and four of them are in my south-east Valleys. The impact of coronavirus on Wales's communities has been exacerbated by existing structure inequalities. A recent report from the Centre For Towns highlights that the fact that Valleys communities and seaside towns such as Ebbw Vale, Maesteg and Rhyl are among the most vulnerable to an economic downturn caused by the virus.
The Welsh Government supplementary budget only concentrates on the short-term economic implications of the pandemic rather than considering Wales's long-term economic recovery. Money is being reallocated from the apprenticeships, work-based learning and other projects, which will have long-term detrimental effects. This will result in few apprenticeships being provided and a reduction in the skilled workforce at a time when we'll need more. Our amendments 2 and 3 recognise the importance of building up the Welsh skill base to help empower people to improve their lives by enabling them to access new employment opportunities to meet the needs of an ever-changing economy around the globe. Apprenticeships will be vital and fundamental to Welsh economic recovery. Skills retention and development programmes will help to increase the resilience of the most vulnerable sectors of the economy whilst providing new opportunities for people to learn and retain.
Amendment 5 calls for long-term COVID recovery funds to be established to support those towns and communities whose economies have been hit hardest by the pandemic. Coastal communities have been disproportionately affected by the shutdown, with the closures of the tourism and the accommodation industries. It is important that these communities get fair, effective, and targeted support to get them through this crisis.
Deputy Presiding Officer, if we take the action proposed today, I believe we can ensure not only that the Welsh economy recovers faster, but that it will emerge stronger and more dynamic than before. We can lay the foundations of a modern dynamic economy with a highly skilled workforce that not only benefits this generation but will benefit our future generations too. Thank you.

Thank you. I now call on Neil McEvoy to move amendment 6, tabled in his name. Neil.

Amendment 6—Neil McEvoy
Add as new point at end of motion:
In order to rebuild Wales economically as a result of the Covid-19 crisis, calls on the Welsh Government to:
a) ensure that the Covid-19 business rate relief scheme supports businesses occupying premises and not landlords who own the premises;
b) provide support for those in the hospitality industry being charged full rent by pub companies during the crisis;
c) legislate to enable Welsh companies to successfully bid for Welsh public sector contracts; and
d) orientate its economic policy toward a food and drink export-led recovery by creating a fully fledged whisky industry.

Amendment 6 moved.

Neil McEvoy AC: Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. I support the principle of the motion. So, I'll come to my amendment. First of all, I think it's probably better to maybe listen to what I've got to say before saying that you're not going to support my amendment.
The idea of amendment 6(d), looking at food and drink and creating a fully fledged whisky industry, is totally doable and it can be done really, really cheaply. Wales has got to be one of the only Celtic countries without a whisky industry, and if you're a whisky enthusiast like me, then that's really disappointing. But what is really interesting is that the market worldwide is so, so lucrative. So, within five years of, let's say 20 distilleries being established, you could have a £100 million export industry, which, in year 10, year 15, year 20, the growth would be huge.
I think in terms of quality of food, as well, we should be really looking at high-end products—make Welsh products really expensive in the world because people will pay for perceived quality.
In terms of amendment 6(c), there will be opportunities with Brexit, and what we need to look at with the Welsh public sector contracts, the public money we spend, these contracts must go to Welsh companies. So, for every—. If we reorientated a very large percentage of public sector contracts to Welsh companies, then we could be creating in the region of 80,000 jobs, which would be extremely significant. And I think if a Welsh company, in future, doesn't get a contract off the Government, there has to be a really good reason why. We won't be any longer bound by EU regulations, so that is completely doable.
We look at the hospitality industry, I'm really concerned that lots of people involved in it—pubs, for example—are still paying for rent. It's absolutely outrageous that they're getting rinsed by the pub companies at the moment. Whether or not this motion goes through, or whether the amendment actually goes through—whether it does or not—I really would like the Government to step up to the plate and support the Welsh hospitality industry by, I think, the furlough initiative going on until 2021. We've really got to try and influence those companies to stop making it so difficult for Welsh pubs to survive.
Amendment 6(a), really, is—. We've got to stop businesses being treated badly by landlords. It's happening far too often. There's a case in Cardiff West where a dance studio catering for 120 children—120 kids—with an inspirational dance teacher. The money, by the landlord, has still not been passed on. It's just really, really poor behaviour, and I really feel for Vickie—she runs Rubylicious—because she's told people what is happening, she's not received the money. She's never alleged criminality, she's never alleged fraud, she simply alleged bad behaviour, and now she finds herself in a position where she could be sued. She's received a really nasty, aggressive solicitor's letter from an employee of the First Minister, no less. So, I'd like to use this opportunity to encourage, in this context, the MS for Cardiff West to maybe have a word with their staff member and tell him to stop treating the inspirational teacher of that dance school in such a bullying, aggressive way. I think he's bringing his employer into disrepute, almost. It's certainly embarrassing him, and that's a code of conduct issue, so I'd ask the MS for Cardiff West to look at that. To go back to the substantive point here, it's not right that the money being aimed at businesses is being taken by landlords.
So, what you have there is just a small package, some ideas. It looks at raising money for the whisky industry. We could also have a stock exchange in Cardiff, for example. We need to start coming forward with these ideas. It's going to be a big challenge to get over this crisis, and we've got to have some concrete ideas.
In terms of the expression of the amendments—

Can you draw your conclusions to a close, please?

Neil McEvoy AC: I will. Thank you. In terms of the amendment, it clearly wouldn't be the only thing, but it's an easy way, so we should take it. Diolch yn fawr.

Thank you. Mike Hedges.

Mike Hedges AC: Diolch, Deputy Llywydd. Thank you very much for calling me in to take part in this debate. I'm going to look at the Welsh economy. It can be broken down into five parts: the essential economy, the bounce-back economy, the areas that can flourish with support, areas that require consumer confidence, and areas that will be very difficult to recover in the very short term.
We know the essential economy; it's been running for the last three months. We know it did. Don't confuse it with the foundation economy; they're not the same things. The essential economy is things like health, social care, the utilities, local authority services, including environmental health and refuse collection, Government services, policing, fire, defence, essential maintenance, undertakers, ICT, food and drink, including their production, sale and transportation, life sciences, the media, postal services, financial insurance and certain manufacturing. They are the essential economy—we've had them going for the last three months, because they are essential.
We've got economic sectors such as public transport still working, but at vastly reduced capacity. We've seen the voluntary and third sector provide much needed services, showing that many are essential, not just nice add-ons.
Then we have the bounce-back economy. These are areas of the economy that will return to the previous levels of demand after an initial rush. These include areas such as the Driver and Vehicle Standards Agency, hairdressers, beauty salons, nail bars, tourists, gyms, tv series, museums, art galleries, construction, car maintenance and servicing, and local coffee shops and takeaway shops. People have been waiting months for them to be open and, in the first few weeks of opening, there'll be lengthy queuesand long delays until we return to the new normal. We're already seeing the queues forming outside well-known takeaway outlets. This will be the V-shaped recovery talked about by economists and they'll all make us all feel better. Within this group are professions such as vets and dentists, and also, I would have said, opticians, but we now know that the Westminster Government advice seems to be: if you've got a problem with your eyes, go for a drive to test them.
The third key sector is one we really do need to support, and this includes universities, theatres, other performing arts venues, manufacturing, professional sport and professional services. These are key parts of the local economy, and require support to recover. These are the areas that, post lockdown, we need the Governments at Westminster and Cardiff to concentrate on, either using transaction capital to provide interest-free loans or providing an income guarantee. This will also include those self-employed people, who will need to rebuild their businesses, having been in lockdown since March. These are key sectors in the economy. These are potential growth sectors in the economy and in the short term, they're going to need support.
Fourthly, we have—[Inaudible.]—that will require consumer confidence, both financial and in terms of personal safety. These are the pubs, the restaurants and local tourist attractions, hotels and clubs. These will require confidence that they're safe, and people having surplus income to be able to afford these luxury items. Confidence that you're safe to go in there will be very, very important, probably far more important than the date on which somebody decides they can open, if people don't want to go and risk their lives by having a drink.
The others are areas dependent on consumer belief in their economic well-being, when they're buying new houses, new cars or investing in house extensions and substantial garden work. These require confidence in the economy and people to be prepared to take on medium and long-term debt. You've got to be confident in having a medium to long-term income before you're prepared to take on medium to long-term debt.
Fifthly are the sectors where recovery will be difficult. Will people and companies have changed how they work? We have seen many people working from home, with productivity no worse, and sometimes better, than when they're working in offices. Will this continue? Because if it does, then roads will be quieter, as will public transport, city centre coffee and sandwich bars, office furniture demand, office space, plus car park income. My belief is that it'll be somewhere in between. Not everybody will go back to work in the office as they did before. Some of it will take place, but some will be working at home, and that will have a huge effect on the economy.
Have people changed their retail habits permanently, with more items are being bought online? If they have, what is the future for the high street? People have got into click and collect and buying online now over the last three months or so. This is the new normal.
Then, there is foreign travel, which will affect not just travel agents but aircraft manufacturers, airports and support services. This area needs support in both the short and medium term from Government to ensure that it can once again thrive and prosper. While none of us can see into the future, the new normal will be very different from the pre-pandemic normal. I would have greater respect for the Conservatives and Plaid Cymru if they could actually produce their own budgets rather than a spending list. I challenged them on the budget, and they didn't. In fact, I was the only one to produce a suggestion for how the budget could be changed. I wanted to put more money into education and less money into the economy.
I support the idea of a citizens' assembly, but we need to discuss its size, its make-up, and how and when it meets. It cannot be a new name for the active, often politically interested citizens who are already engaged.

Can you bring your remarks to a conclusion, please, Mike?

Mike Hedges AC: Any decisions that we make now, we must make sure that there are opportunities for everyone to have their voice heard, to take part and to have a meaningful say. Thank you, Deputy Llywydd.

Rhun ap Iorwerth AC: I think however we look at it, the experience we're going through at the moment is a turning point in our history. There will be lives that will never be the same again, families who are grieving, people facing long-term health challenges, and the change has touched upon everything—the way that services are delivered, the way that Government works, even. Of course, the economic impact is immense, and much of that impact is entirely negative—companies going bust, individuals losing their jobs and families losing income. But somehow, out of all of this, we do have to search for those elements that could become positives from this deep rut that we have found ourselves in. We know what some of them are. We've heard reference to some of them, the working at home revolution, doctors holding remote surgeries, the realisation that you don't have to jump into the car quite so often, and the enthusiasm that's created for being greener.But there is an opportunity here to look at our whole economic future, and I'm not just talking about rebuilding and recreating what we had; I am talking about coming back stronger and better, and what Plaid Cymru has today is a plan to establish and start that work.
The two first clauses mention practical steps to assist some of those who have been hardest hit, including young people—Helen Mary Jones has already mentioned those. The third, and we'll hear Delyth Jewell discussing this, is a reference to our belief that the establishment of a citizens' assembly would enable the people of Wales to contribute meaningfully to this work that we're facing.
I want to focus on the last clause and the establishment of an all-Wales renewal fund worth billions of pounds. Helen has mentioned many elements of what we'd like to do with it, but just bear in mind that this would just be the beginning of the long-term investment that we need. And those among you who have been listening will know that Plaid Cymru have been asking for many years for investment in the future of our country, and the austerity policies of the UK Government went entirely contrary to what was needed. We needed investment; we still need investment more than anything, following this pandemic. We need to invest in our infrastructure, in healthy and green homes, in public transport, digital connectivity, innovative energy projects, in higher education and research, and social infrastructure, too. We're talking about a programme to transform our nation that will create returns—financial returns to pay off these debts and also social returns that we and our children, and their children, could benefit from.
This is the time to do this. We can borrow at very low rates, we could look at alternative ways of funding projects—bonds and so on. But we would need new fiscal powers and new flexibilities in order to allow this to happen: to raise the current borrowing cap, for example, from the current £1 billion to, I would say, around £5 billion, allowing the front-loading of that so that we can commence the work in earnest. I think the Minister for Finance would agree that we need other flexibilities in terms of the ability to draw down reserves and, of course, the Barnett formula needs to be scrapped and funding should happen on the basis of need.
I will conclude my comments by saying this: we must also, as we heard from Helen, have a mature debate as to how we pay for these investments and for the kinds of public services that we want to see. From reviewing priorities—and Mike Hedges has mentioned some of his own priorities—I'm very confident that we could, within current budgets, repay borrowing, as we've heard, because the cost of borrowing is so very low at the moment. We've recalled during this period just how valuable services such as health and care are, but whilst we want the best possible care services, for too long we've wanted to pay less and less for those services, and we can't square that circle forever.
I attended a virtual conference at the beginning of this pandemic—it feels like a lifetime ago now, but it was a conference organised by the Institute of Welsh Affairs: 'Rethinking Wales'. And that's exactly what we need to do. We need to rethink how we do things and what we're trying to deliver, and, yes, how we pay for those things. I get the feeling that very many of us, and many of us in this Senedd, hopefully, do want to press the reboot button, as Plaid Cymru's paper says, or 'reset', as a new non-party group that has been launched this week has said.

Can you bring your comments to a conclusion, please?

Rhun ap Iorwerth AC: With these few words.

Rhun ap Iorwerth AC: The time has come to be innovative and ambitious and to set new horizons for our nation.

Janet Finch-Saunders AC: I do hope that the Minister has actually been able to check the facts—

No, no; sorry. Will you speak to this motion, please, or I'll call another speaker? This motion, please.

Janet Finch-Saunders AC: Nearly one in five jobs in Wales are in shut-down sectors, according to the Learning and Work Institute. If just one of these four workers lost their jobs, unemployment could exceed the levels seen at the last recession.The risk of increased unemployment is clear, as Wales has gone from a record low unemployment rate of 2.9 in November to seeing the number of people claiming unemployment-related benefits almost double from March to 103,869 in April. The UK Government has received £2.6 million of claims through the self-employment income support scheme, and is helping 8.9 million employees and 1.1 million employers through the coronavirus job retention scheme. These programmes by the right honourable Rishi Sunak MP, Chancellor of the Exchequer, have seen bold, unprecedented moves to help our constituents overcome the economic turbulence caused by COVID-19.
The retention scheme now presents a brilliant opportunity for bringing furloughed employees and the economy back to business. However, for this to be successful in Wales, we need to see the embers of the Welsh economy become fire. Our economic dragon cannot roar again without action by the Welsh Government. It is time to reopen our housing market, consider reopening non-essential shops, bars, restaurants and pubs, and ensure that Wales is not closed to tourists this summer. Conwy is the top area in Wales and one of the top 20 areas in the UK where the highest percentage of jobs are at risk. In fact, on average, over a quarter of all employed people in coastal towns in Wales are in a shutdown sector, such as accommodation, art, leisure and restaurants.
I am delighted that we are proposing to establish a COVID community recovery fund to support those towns and communities whose economies are hardest hit by this pandemic. In considering the employment guarantee, I read the Trades Union Congress's new plan for jobs. It is true that this will be delivered at a regional or local level, but there is a huge weakness. To prove that it will work, reference has been made to the future jobs fund. This has not been a success. Of the two years following the start of participation, the net impact of FJF on participants was to decrease the number of days spent receiving welfare support by only eight days, and an increase in the number of days in unsubsidised employment of less than two weeks.
Therefore, Plaid Cymru's proposal is not the answer. Last week, Professor Ewart Keep stated that, come the end of July, loads of people are leaving school, college and their university courses, and a lot of them are not going to find jobs. He has identified work experience as utterly critical. I agree and believe that young people could benefit from an apprentice guarantee scheme. The looming employment crisis would also be dampened through establishing a job reskilling and retraining scheme, designed to support those needing to find alternative employment following this crisis.
If the Welsh Government does not act on some of the proposals discussed today, there is a real chance that our Welsh economic dragon and the future of young people will be harmed before we see any economic recovery. And my thanks go to the UK Treasury for the £2.10 million that they are providing for a zoos fund through a Barnett consequential here to Wales, despite what the Minister has, maybe inadvertently, misledme in his response. Thank you.

Delyth Jewell AC: 'I am so tired of waiting, Aren't you, For the world to become good And beautiful and kind?'
I saw those words by Langston Hughes on Twitter a few days ago. Someone was quoting them in despair at how bleak our world seems, because we are facing many crises. Aside from the scourge of racism, COVID-19 threatens the future of our most vulnerable. So far, the impacts of the virus have been felt in the pain of losing loved ones and losing moments, because of locking ourselves away, but another crisis is looming—an economic calamity that faces us all unless we take drastic intervention.
We keep hearing the word 'unprecedented'. Well, the economic challenge will be unprecedented, so too must the scale of Government intervention be unprecedented. So, I'm dismayed that the Welsh Government has chosen to delete our motion today, instead of grappling with the suggestions we've made to help the economy. Instead, they've replaced it with a lackadaisical list of what they're already doing. Business as usual will not cut it.
Helen Mary Jones has ably set out what would be possible if we were bold: expanding borrowing powers to £5 billion and suspending annual draw-down limits. These are radical and necessary steps if we're to save our communities from ruin.
As the Member for South Wales East, I draw attention as well to the report by the Centre for Towns that identifies three towns in my region as being most at risk—Merthyr, Ebbw Vale and Tredegar, the same towns I mentioned in First Minister's questions in March. I said then that they need serious support after battling on, despite long-term neglect and underfunding. We need to prioritise areas like this for reinvestment, and to give people the tools to rebuild their careers and communities. Let's be bold, let's talk more about how we can actually put our words into action.
There's been talk about a green new deal. Let's make that a reality in Wales. Let's establish a reskill Wales fund, specialising in green technology to build a futureproofed industry in line with this Senedd's commitment to tackling the climate emergency. It was 30 degrees yesterday in the Arctic circle. That crisis, too, is deepening. Let's invest in green transport and decarbonised housing, starting with the areas where they have the highest fuel poverty. Let's reinvigorate the foundations of the economy by linking communities and by boosting infrastructure in towns that have been left behind—move Government jobs there and allow people to work from home.
And let's build this new economy on fairer foundations by prioritising well-being. We must ensure fair pay for carers, tackle disadvantages faced by the disempowered and guarantee access to mental health support for everyone who needs it. Chwarae Teg has said that we should build a future economy based on the values of being caring human beings, and put people and planet at the heart of decision making. That Langston Hughes poem I quoted has been shared by many in response to the structural and inherent racism and inequalities in our society. Whatever we build after the virus must eliminate those scourges too.
We've set out what some of Plaid Cymru's ideas are, but we want to hear what the citizens of Wales think, which is why we're calling for a citizen's assembly to be established, so that the voices of those people who often feel neglected by the political system are heard. I was quite shocked that the Welsh Government have deleted reference to a citizen's assembly in their amendment. I would urge them with urgency to reconsider that decision. Let's give the people of Wales a greater voice in our shared future. Citizen's assemblies have proved instrumental across the world in bringing in radical change.
We're facing the challenge of our lifetime, but we also have a chance here to build a world that is good and beautiful and kind. If we are to succeed, we cannot do it alone. The Welsh Government needs to start listening. Please begin today by giving serious consideration to the ideas my colleagues and I have put forward, and be bold: establish a citizen's assembly so that Wales can move forward together as a nation prepared. I am so tired of waiting. Aren't you? Let's build that better world.

David J Rowlands AC: Whilst we can agree with many of the initiatives mentioned by Helen Mary in her introduction to the debate, we believe that asking the Welsh Government to effectively underwrite a job guarantee scheme for the young suffering unemployment as a result of the coronavirus crisis is an ill-thought-out concept. Firstly, it could have considerable financial implications, which, given the Government's already stretched resources due to their numerous intervention programmes with regard to coronavirus, is almost certainly practical.Secondly, it raises the question: why should only the young be included in this proposal? There are many thousands of people not considered to be young in this sense, but who have families to support as well as mortgages and other financial demands, demands that are not generally shared by many of our young people. We do agree—indeed, we would call upon the Welsh Government to implement as many retraining schemes as possible, but these should be open to all suffering redundancies due to this crisis, not just the young.
We also cannot support the call for a citizen's assembly to establish how we should build the economy after coronavirus. It is we, as parliamentarians, who should be deciding how to go forward. We are the elected representatives of the people. We are charged by them to put in place the strategies and policies to invigorate the economy, not just after such crises but at all times whilst we exercise the power,whether directly, if we are the Government of the day, or by scrutiny and influence as the opposition. The establishment of a citizens' assembly will, of course, be an expensive exercise, and such expenditure cannot be justified in these times of extreme financial pressure.
The last proposal in this debate seems to be part of an unattainable Welsh wish list. Where will the billions come from—raising taxes, borrowing, or, as Helen Mary suggested, the issue of Government bonds? We all acknowledge that the youth of this country will be facing tax increases for years, maybe decades, to come as a result of the coronavirus lockdown strategy. So, despite the assurance outlined by Delyth Jewell and Rhun ap Iorwerth, we cannot burden them with even more debt in order to rebuild the economy. I agree with Rhun's call to push the restart button, but unfortunately, all too often, the billions spent by Government has resulted in very little value for money. The economy must be built by hard work from the bottom up, not by the largesse of Government money.

Llyr Gruffydd AC: The elements of this motion do give us some of the foundations for what is, in its essence, a new green deal for Wales. We've heard the example of retrofitting homes regularly, and, of course ,it's a perfect example of that triple bottom line that we need to focus on as we restore our lives in the post-COVID-19 period. It provides benefits and gains in an environmental sense, as we reduce the carbon footprint of our homes across Wales, it brings economic benefits by creating new jobs and new businesses in all parts of the country, as well as social benefits, which will help to resolve fuel poverty, improve the health of people, who will no longer be living in damp, cold housing, and hopefully it will save lives, as it reduces the excess winter deaths that we hear about every winter.

Llyr Gruffydd AC: Now, the term 'green new deal', of course, has its origins in Roosevelt's New Deal in 1930s America. And in the throes of the Great Depression, his New Deal had three aims: to provide relief for the poor, to provide economic recovery, and, of course, to reform financial systems so that economic depression wouldn't happen again. It was relief, recover, reform. And Congress subsequently invested in programmes that put the unemployed in work, and work that served a purpose to society, such as constructing roads, building schools, hospitals et cetera. And those underlying ideas are just as valid today. But first we have to resist that urge to cut spending—this can't be the start of austerity mark 2, because we know exactly what that means, and what the price is that people have to pay for that kind of approach. The green new deal has to see us invest, and invest specifically, of course, in projects that help tackle the climate and nature emergency.
And I would draw people's attention to a recent study from University of Oxford that compared green stimulus projects with traditional stimulus schemes, such as some of the measures taken after the 2008 global financial crisis. That research found that green projects actually create more jobs, they deliver higher short-term returns per pound spent by the Government, and they lead to increased long-term cost savings. And, of course, none of this has to wait. We have shovel-ready schemes out there now in Wales, be they energy efficiency programmes, which we've already touched upon, renewable energy projects—the Swansea bay tidal lagoon is an obvious example, with, potentially, subsequent projects around other parts of the Welsh coast as well—finally putting in place the electric vehicle charging networks that we need across Wales, redesigning roads for more active travel, flood protection, tree planting. Wales is ripe for that kind of investment.
Now, I'd like to say a few words as well about the food and drink sector in Wales, not just whisky, by the way, but the whole sector here. Because I think now is the time for us to rethink, to reset and to rebuild our food supply system in Wales, from the ground up. Over recent decades, we've allowed our food retail industry to become evermore concentrated, to a point where we now see just four companies controlling 70 per cent of the UK food retail market. And that concentration of power amongst a few large food retailers has given them unprecedented power to dictate ever-lower prices to farmers, continually sapping the financial health of domestic agriculture, and, of course, the wider rural economy. And as a result of this, our food security has actually worsened, with the UK now importing nearly 40 per cent of all the food that we consume. And that model is flawed. And it was already on a dangerous trajectory, even before COVID-19.And I haven't even mentioned Brexit, which gives us another imperative to drive the reshaping of our food system and to create greater resilience in the face of further uncertainty.
So, we need to focus anew on developing processing capabilities to add value to raw produce. We've seen the loss of abattoirs and dairy-processing plants, particularly here in north-east Wales in recent years, which means, of course, that hundreds of jobs have been lost, thousands of food miles have been added, and primary food producers have become even more exposed to global markets.
So, we need to move away from a just-in-time system to a just-in-case system, and by supporting the development of local processing capabilities, we need to start to decentralise food production. We need to make it fairer, we need to make it more sustainable, and subsequently, of course, help build a stronger local economy. But Government needs to make it happen, and if we learn one lesson from this pandemic, then it's that Governments can actually have a transformative effect, but only when they will it. And that transformation, of course, isn't just about economic growth, it's about tackling climate change, it's about equality, protecting livelihoods, putting an end to foodbanks, preventing suicides, being globally responsible—it's about all of that—and this is the moment todo it.

Thank you. Can I now call the Minister for Economy, Transport and North Wales, Ken Skates?

Ken Skates AC: Thank you, Dirprwy Lywydd, and my thanks to all Members for their contributions, and I certainly welcome this opportunity to respond to them. Since publishing our road map and plans on how we propose to return to normal, or as best as normal, here in Wales, on 15 May, we've been planning the next stages, and it's important that we prepare for the future ahead of us. I think all Members in the virtual Chamber today are agreed on this.
We've always been clear that our approach to easing restrictions must be based on science and also that workers' safety must be at the forefront of decisions that we make. I've been meeting with the shadow social partnership council regularly, and I'll continue to do so, in order to discuss our shared issues and measures that we can introduce in order to continue our response to how we deal with COVID-19. And my task, of course, is to ensure that, when the time is right, our businesses, our transport network and our skills system are ready, not only to adapt and transition for the post-coronavirus world, but, crucially, that we are ready and able and wanting to build back better for the sake of this and future generations.
Now, as I've repeatedly said, in Wales we've put in place the most generous package of support for businesses in the UK—in total, £1.7 billion-worth of support. But a recession is unavoidable, and so unprecedented support for people who are going to be affected in the longer term from coronavirus must be needed.
We know that, currently, around about one thirdof the workforce is unemployed or furloughed here in Wales, with further jobs at risk, depending, of course, on what sort of shape the recovery ultimately takes. And as in previous recessions, as Helen Mary Jones identified at the outset, it will be the most vulnerable people in the labour market who will be hardest hit, and young people are one of the groups most likely to be disproportionately impacted.
Now, employability support is vital in times of economic uncertainty, and so our vision is to support the return of the current workforce, to restart an individual's employment journey and to reskill individuals to return to new sectors, whilst preparing the future workforce. We'll prioritise support for young people to mitigate a rise in youth unemployment and to protect young people from the long-term scarring effects that a long period of unemployment can have.
Through Jobs Growth Wales, I think we've fairly and adequately and proudly demonstrated our willingness and ability to help young people to avoid long-term unemployment. In some parts of England, between 2010 and 2015, we saw long-term youth unemployment rise by thousands of per cent, whereas here in Wales, because of Jobs Growth Wales, in some parts of our country, we saw a fall during that period in long-term youth unemployment. So, we'll use that scheme and other schemes to support this generation of young people.
We'll also deploy our re-employment interventions now. We'll be using ReAct, Job Support Wales and the Employability Skills programme to swiftly support people back into work, whilst our community employability programmes will provide intensive support to those further away from the labour market.

Ken Skates AC: We'll also grow and support jobs for the future through upskilling and reskilling to support employers to adapt and transform their skills base to maintain and grow employment. And, just one year from its official launch, Working Wales has directly assisted more than 31,500 people, and over 6,000 young people, who were looking for employability support. That service has, of course, as a consequence of coronavirus, changed, but it's not the only change that we are making.
On 20 May, the Minister for Education outlined a COVID-19 post-16 sector resilience plan to give education providers a clear framework for planning and delivering our employability and skills response. For apprentices, we've developed online learning modules to ensure that they're able to continue to progress through their learning. And for our traineeship learners, we've developed digital learning packages and maintained their training allowances.
Our community employability programmes are, of course, adapting as well. In terms of their delivery, they are changing in order to provide outreach to our most vulnerable communities, supporting those who are furthest from the labour market, including disabled people, those with low skills, and individuals from a Black, Asian and minority ethnic background. And, to date, they've supported 47,600 people; 17,900 of those have moved into employment. And for those in work, the Union Learning Fund, with support from the Wales Trades Union Congress, is delivering immediate—[Inaudible.]—and support to workers during and after the coronavirus crisis.
I'll just pick up on some specific points that were made by Members: first of all, the question of a role for a citizens' assembly. Now, here in Wales, we have very unique models of social partnership and we must protect the contribution that our social partners make in helping to inform and shape policy. We should not inadvertently undermine our social partnership model. We also have commissioners. And, through the work that Jeremy Miles is leading on, we are calling for ideas, innovation and creativity from all—all—of our citizens and organisations. And, therefore, whilst we are not ruling out the potential role for a citizens' assembly, it shouldn't undermine or duplicate the social model of partnership that we have been able to develop here in Wales.
With regard to the pub sector, I couldn't agree more that pubs are, in many of our communities, right at the heart of those communities. And I'm determined to make sure that we support independent pubs, independent breweries and those institutions that bring people together. We're equally determined to make sure that we support the food and drink sector; that has been identified by a number of Members. There has been staggering export growth in recent times within Welsh food and drink businesses, and we're determined to make sure that that success story continues, because many of those businesses are amongst our most prestigious brand carriers and flag carriers for Wales.
Now, Mike Hedges rightly identified the role that social infrastructure will play in the recovery and he identified, in particular, theatres. Now, we are committed to using the recovery to unite people, to improve social cohesion, and so we went into coronavirus committed to the twenty-first century schools programme, to new health centres, to enhancing cultural institutions, such as the renewal of Theatr Clwyd and others, and we remain committed to our enormously ambitious programme of restoring, renewing and creating new social infrastructure.
I'd just like to touch upon a point that Janet Finch-Saunders made regarding the job retention scheme and the self-employment support scheme. I welcome—let me be absolutely clear; I welcome—both these schemes. They have been vitally important in supporting people and businesses through this incredibly difficult time. But they cannot be withdrawn prematurely. We cannot allow people and businesses to face a cliff edge in terms of the support that is offered through these schemes.
In response to David Rowlands, support will be made available to people of all ages, not just to young people, but to people of all ages. And specifically on this occasion—and this was not available back in the post 2008 period—we have Working Wales, a single point of contact that will offer bespoke and tailored support for all individuals that are affected by unemployment or by the threat of unemployment.
So, Dirprwy Lywydd,we do not wish to bounce back from this pandemic; we want to build back better by creating a national economy that sees employment, wealth and prosperity spread more equally, more fairly, across Wales, and none of this would be possible without the support of our social partners in the work that we are doing. The principles of social justice, fair work and environmental sustainability guide the decisions of this Government. COVID-19 will fundamentally reshape the economy, and so this means there is no going back—nor should we go back. Policy mistakes of the past—above all, austerity and privatisation—inflicted upon Wales in the years before devolution, and indeed since, have left us more vulnerable to shocks like coronavirus.
Whilst ensuring we support businesses and household incomes during this crisis, we intend to seize this moment as a unique window of opportunity to rebuild our society and our economy as we wish to see it. So, in building back better, our long-term goal is a resilient economy that has the well-being of people and the environment at its heart.
I very much welcome the ideas that have been proposed today. This is only the beginning of what I hope will be a constructive dialogue across parties and with a plethora of organisations, institutions and citizens across Wales.

Thank you. There have been no requests for any interventions, so I'll call Helen Mary Jones to reply to the debate. Helen Mary Jones.

Helen Mary Jones AC: Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd, and I'd like to thank all Members who have contributed. In the few minutes available to me to close this debate, I can't possibly respond to them all, but I do want to respond to some points.
To the Conservative Members here, I would say to you: the most useful thing that you can do for your constituents now is to go to your Westminster Government and advocate for this Parliament—our Government—to be able to borrow money like any other sensible national institution at this time, so that we can build back. This is not about saddling future generations with debt; this is about ensuring that we rebuild our economy in such a way that that economy generates enough wealth for us to be able to pay the debts we have, and that is just what every normal country does.
I was touched a little bit by what Janet Finch-Saunders said about the dragon roaring, and I've reached the point where I don't want the dragon to roar so much—I want the dragon curled around her eggs, nurturing her nest, building and making her future generations safe, and that, of course, is what the Well-being of Future Generations (Wales) Act 2015 requires us to do.
I don't disagree with anything that the Minister said. It would be really difficult to disagree with anything that the Minister said. But what I'm not left with is a sense of urgency, and that is what concerns me. But I will take what he said on face value, and we will contribute our ideas. This will need to be resourced. We will need the borrowing powers, and we will need to look again at the funding formula, because it doesn't work.
I want to respond a little bit too, if I may, Dirprwy Lywydd, to some of the points about a citizen's assembly. Now, Mike Hedges said in his contribution, and I thought that was very valid, that we didn't want just another talking—he didn't quite say these words, but just not another talking shop for the people who always participate to be able to speak. And then the Minister went on to say we must ensure we mustn't undermine social partnerships. Well, it's the people who are in the social partnerships, who are in those meetings, who can already articulate their concerns, and the point of a citizen's assembly is to add to that. There are models, there are effective models—Extinction Rebellion Wales has one, for example, a blueprint—that are based on international examples that will ensure that it's not only the usual voices, not only the people who can already speak up.And Members have also said that this is a matter for us as a Parliament and for our Government. Well, of course it is, but I don't think that any of us here in his room think that any of us have got all the answers. We can't have, because we don't even yet fully know what the questions are.
Dirprwy Lywydd, what we're proposing today are some emergency measures to start getting things moving again. We need to get our young people working. And 'Why young people?' people have said—well, that's because they are the most likely to be made unemployed at times like this, and, if we don't get them back into work, there is a lifetime effect on their prospects if they're out of work for more than six months.
We need to reskill the economy, we need proper investment to do it, and we need new and innovative ways of consulting with our fellow citizens about how that can best be done. As the Minister has said, Dirprwy Lywydd, I'm sure this is only the beginning of a conversation, but I think the people of Wales require from us more than a conversation; I think they require action. They need us to work now. The first steps need to be taken while we look to what the longer term steps must be. So, with those few words, which is all that time allows me, and with thanks again to all the Members who've contributed—there have been many valuable and interesting contributions today—I would say I will commend this motion, with amendment 3, to the Senedd. It is not enough for the Government to list what it is already doing. We need more. The people of Wales expect more. Diolch yn fawr.

The Llywydd took the Chair.

The proposal is to agree the motion. Does any Member object? [Objection.] I see that there are objections. I've both seen and heard those objections, therefore we'll defer voting until voting time.

Voting deferred until voting time.

9. Voting Time

And that brings us to voting time. As indicated on the Members' agenda, today's votes will be conducted in accordance with Standing Order 34.11. Each political group may nominate one member of the group to carry the same number of votes as there are members of that group. In the case of a political group with an Executive role, the nominee will carry the same number of votes as there are members of that group, plus any other members of the Government. Members who do not belong to a group or grouping will vote for themselves, and I will conduct a vote by roll call.
The first vote, therefore, is on the motion to annul the Local Government (Coronavirus) (Postponement of Elections) (Wales) Regulations 2020. On behalf of the Labour group and the Government, David Rees, how do you cast your 30 votes?

David Rees AC: Against.

On behalf of the Welsh Conservatives, Darren Millar, how do you cast your 11 votes?

Darren Millar AC: For.

On behalf of Plaid Cymru, Siân Gwenllian, how do you cast your nine votes?

Siân Gwenllian AC: Against.

On behalf of the Brexit Party, Mark Reckless, how do you cast your four votes?

Mark Reckless AC: Against.

Gareth Bennett.

Gareth Bennett AC: Abstain.

Neil Hamilton.

Neil Hamilton AC: For.

Neil McEvoy.

Neil McEvoy AC: In favour.

The result of the vote, therefore, is that there are 13 in favour, one abstention and 43 against. Therefore, the motion is not agreed.

Vote on NDM7329 held in accordance with Standing Order 34.11.

David Rees on behalf of the Labour Group and the Government: Against (30)
Darren Millar on behalf of the Conservative Group: For (11)
Siân Gwenllian on behalf of the Plaid Cymru Group: Against (9)
Mark Reckless on behalf of the Brexit Party Group: Against (4)
Gareth Bennett – Independent: Abstain
Neil Hamilton – United Kingdom Independence Party: For
Neil McEvoy – Independent: For

Motion not agreed.

The next vote is on the Plaid Cymru debate on the economy and COVID-19. I call for a vote on the motion unamended in the name of Siân Gwenllian. On behalf of the Labour group and the Government, David Rees, how do you cast your 30 votes?

David Rees AC: Against.

On behalf of the Welsh Conservatives, Darren Millar, how do you cast your 11 votes?

Darren Millar AC: Against.

On behalf of Plaid Cymru, Siân Gwenllian, how do you cast your nine votes?

Siân Gwenllian AC: In favour.

On behalf of the Brexit Party, Mark Reckless, how do you cast your four votes?

Mark Reckless AC: Against.

Gareth Bennett.

Gareth Bennett AC: Against.

Neil Hamilton.

Neil Hamilton AC: Against.

Neil McEvoy.

Neil McEvoy AC: In favour.

The result of the vote, therefore, is that there are 10 in favour, no abstentions and 47 against, and therefore the motion is not agreed.

Vote on NDM7331held in accordance with Standing Order 34.11.

David Rees on behalf of the Labour Group and the Government: Against (30)
Darren Millar on behalf of the Conservative Group: Against (11)
Siân Gwenllian on behalf of the Plaid Cymru Group: For (9)
Mark Reckless on behalf of the Brexit Party Group: Against (4)
Gareth Bennett – Independent: Against
Neil Hamilton – United Kingdom Independence Party: Against
Neil McEvoy – Independent: For

Motion not agreed.

We therefore move to the amendments to the motion. If amendment 1 is agreed, amendments 2, 3, 4 and 5 will be deselected. I call for a vote on amendment 1, tabled in the name of Rebecca Evans. On behalf of the Labour group and the Government, David Rees, how do you cast your 30 votes?

David Rees AC: In favour.

On behalf of the Welsh Conservatives group, Darren Millar, how do you cast your 11 votes?

Darren Millar AC: Against.

Plaid Cymru—Siân Gwenllian, how do you cast your nine votes?

Siân Gwenllian AC: Against.

Brexit Party—Mark Reckless, how do you cast your four votes?

Mark Reckless AC: Abstain.

Gareth Bennett.

Gareth Bennett AC: Against.

Neil Hamilton.

Neil Hamilton AC: Against.

Neil McEvoy.

Neil McEvoy AC: Against.

The result of that vote, therefore, is that there were 30 in favour, four abstentions, 23 against, and therefore the amendment is agreed, which means that amendments 2, 3, 4 and 5 are deselected.

Vote on amendment 1 to NDM7331held in accordance with Standing Order 34.11.

David Rees on behalf of the Labour Group and the Government: For (30)
Darren Millar on behalf of the Conservative Group: Against (11)
Siân Gwenllian on behalf of the Plaid Cymru Group: Against (9)
Mark Reckless on behalf of the Brexit Party Group: Abstain (4)
Gareth Bennett – Independent: Against
Neil Hamilton – United Kingdom Independence Party: Against
Neil McEvoy – Independent: Against

Amendment agreed.

Amendments 2, 3, 4 and 5 deselected.

Which leaves amendment 6, tabled in the name of Neil McEvoy. A vote, therefore, on that amendment. On behalf of the Labour group and the Government, David Rees, how do you cast your 30 votes?

David Rees AC: Against.

Okay. On behalf of the Welsh Conservatives, Darren Millar, how do you cast your 11 votes?

Darren Millar AC: Abstain.

Siân Gwenllian, how do you cast your nine votes?

Siân Gwenllian AC: Abstain.

Mark Reckless, how do you cast your four votes?

Mark Reckless AC: Abstain.

Gareth Bennett.

Gareth Bennett AC: Against.

Neil Hamilton.

Neil Hamilton AC: In favour.

Neil McEvoy.

Neil McEvoy AC: In favour.

The result of the vote—. Apologies; it does take some time for the results to arrive in Aberaeron. [Laughter.] The result of the vote is that there were two in favour, 24 abstentions, and 31 against. And therefore, the amendment is not agreed.

Vote on amendment 6 to NDM7331 held in accordance with Standing Order 34.11.

David Rees on behalf of the Labour Group and the Government: Against (30)
Darren Millar on behalf of the Conservative Group: Abstain (11)
Siân Gwenllian on behalf of the Plaid Cymru Group: Abstain (9)
Mark Reckless on behalf of the Brexit Party Group: Abstain (4)
Gareth Bennett – Independent: Against
Neil Hamilton - United Kingdom Independence Party: For
Neil McEvoy - Independent: For

Amendment not agreed.

The final vote is therefore on the motion as amended.

Motion NDM7331 as amended:
To propose that the Senedd:
1. Notes the package of employability support currently available through the Welsh Government including the highly regarded Jobs Growth Wales scheme which has supported more than 19,000 young people into good quality work and ReAct which for more than a decade has helped individuals retrain and find new employment.
2. Notes the Welsh Government's £500m Economic Resilience Fund which is currently helping thousands of small and medium sized businesses in Wales stay afloat and keep individuals in employment and which will in future support recovery.
3. Notes the expert work being coordinated by the Counsel General across Welsh Government on recovery planning including work by the Minister for Economy to identify further skills interventions which can support effective retraining in the coming months and the recovery phase.
4. Welcomes the constructive discussions the Minister for Economy has had with all parties about how we emerge from Coronavirus with the best possible prospects for young people.
5. Recognises the need to work in social partnership with trade unions and business to Build Back Better for the future.
6. Recognises that the Welsh Government has dedicated close to £2.5bn to its Covid-19 response since March 2020, further notes the scale of the economic crisis facing the whole of the United Kingdom and calls on the UK Government to develop a significant economic stimulus package that can support the Welsh Government’s work towards a green and just recovery.

And I call on the Labour group and the Government, David Rees, to cast their votes.

David Rees AC: In favour.

Welsh Conservatives, Darren Millar, your 11 votes.

Darren Millar AC: Against.

On behalf of Plaid Cymru, Siân Gwenllian, nine votes.

Siân Gwenllian AC: Against.

Mark Reckless, Brexit Party, your four votes.

Mark Reckless AC: Abstain.

Gareth Bennett.

Gareth Bennett AC: Against.

Neil Hamilton.

Neil Hamilton AC: Against.

Neil McEvoy.

Neil McEvoy AC: Against.

Thank you. The result of the vote, therefore, is that there were 30 in favour, four abstentions and 23 against, and therefore the motion is approved.

Vote on NDM7331 as amended held in accordance with Standing Order 34.11.

David Rees on behalf of the Labour Group and the Government: For (30)
Darren Millar on behalf of the Conservative Group: Against (11)
Siân Gwenllian on behalf of the Plaid Cymru Group: Against (9)
Mark Reckless on behalf of the Brexit Party Group: Abstain (4)
Gareth Bennett – Independent: Against
Neil Hamilton - United Kingdom Independence Party: Against
Neil McEvoy - Independent: Against

Motion agreed.

And that brings today's proceedings and our votes for the day to a close. Thank you.

The meeting ended at 17:02.